Poor man’s passagemaker

[apex1]

You don´t get it boys?

This thread was meant to find a passagemaking

M O T O R B O A T

design.
Not the minimum sailor one can possibly survive one week of coastal cruising.

 

[waikikin]

Richard started discussion about perfect passagemaker. It seems that it is interesting concept to a lot of people. Unfortunately, most of them will never have a money for such a boat. I think it could be interesting to explore possibilities to design something similar, on the budget, sacrificing some of the space and luxuries, but still retaining able voyaging power boat. (Auxiliary sails allowed).

She has to be cheap and easy to build, use and maintain, very fuel efficient. That means long, narrow hull with a sharp bow. Cruising speeds 4 – 8 knots.

Money can be saved by avoiding expensive nautical toys and luxuries, keeping everything simple, work-boat style. During a voyage, fuel could be saved by careful route planning, making use of favorable currents and winds and motoring at slower revs.

I think that sardine carrier or older generation life boat type of boat with simple, auxiliary sails would be appropriate for the task.

In the attachment, some of the boat shapes and rig that I consider pretty closely suitable for the task. (Of course, they have to be modified for cruising). What do you think?

Milan, http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=8934209 Maybe something like this crayboat might suit you, there's a few others on boatpoint with rigs & fitout, all the best in your endeavours from Jeff

 

[mydauphin]

Started a new thread http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/minimum-passagemaker-cruiser-34861.html The minimum passagemaker. Apex wants a perfect one, I want one that will do the job. Your comments welcomed...

 

[dskira]

Started a new thread http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/minimum-passagemaker-cruiser-34861.html The minimum passagemaker. Apex wants a perfect one, I want one that will do the job. Your comments welcomed...

Is the perfect one is not the one who do the job?
It is a strange statement, like an oxymoron, no?
Just asking the difference between the two definition. Could you elaborate what you mean?
Daniel

 

[mydauphin]

A Mercedes-Benz S class or Bentley might be the perfect State of the Art car, but we all drive Camry or Lexus or Chevy. Why? Because we have different compromises to make and the perfect whatever may not be what we presently want. So my question is what is the bare minimum you want in a boat. Might be an interesting discussion

 

[Angélique]

Are we going toward Craigslist

Daniel

OK, here some (sold ) examples from the EU . . . . .

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http://www.scheepsmakelaardij.nl/schepenlijst.php?lang=en&ship_id=967 (the same in PDF)

This one^ was asking € 125k (if I remember well), long time for sale, could have gone far below € 100k. Conversion design Olivier F. Van Meer.

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http://easternyachts.com/elisabeth/index.htm

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OP: ‘‘(Auxiliary sails allowed)’’ and ‘‘(Of course, they have to be modified for cruising)’’

Cheers!
Angel

 

[dskira]

A Mercedes-Benz S class or Bentley might be the perfect State of the Art car, but we all drive Camry or Lexus or Chevy. Why? Because we have different compromises to make and the perfect whatever may not be what we presently want. So my question is what is the bare minimum you want in a boat. Might be an interesting discussion

I agree it can be an interresting discussion, but not with car comparisons. It doesn't work that way.
the discussion can be based only on boat, not on car, airplane, balloon, bicycle, rocket, jetliner, brothel, belly dancing, well you get the drift.
Boat is boat, nothing else.
So let answer my question without dodging it with Bentley and other marmalade non sense.
Don't take it personally but it is nonsense.
Daniel

 

[mydauphin]

Is that a bow rudder I see?

 

[dskira]

To make sure we are on the same discussion mydauphin:
Middle of the winter, Atlantic North, snow storm, wind force nine Beaufort.
That is the kind of weather a "passagemaker" can have in no time.
Middle of Summer, Lion Gulf Mediterranean, the cliff are high, the wind come from force 4to force 9 in 15 minutes. The waves are short, high and rather deadly by the brutality of the ratio length high.
If your boat can't take it, you die since you go to the cliffs
That is the kind of weather a "passagemaker" can have in no time.
This is the reality.
Not the Bentley.

Daniel

 

[Angélique]

Is that a bow rudder I see?

No, it's fixed.

 

[dskira]

I think the biggest difference between a cruiser and a passagemaker, is the cruiser knows its territory, since it comes and go from the same area.
A passagemaker will go on territory it has no idea about.
And that is a big difference.
Daniel

 

[yipster]

I think the biggest difference between a cruiser and a passagemaker, is the cruiser knows its territory, since it comes and go from the same area.
A passagemaker will go on territory it has no idea about.
And that is a big difference.
Daniel

i dont want to cros your lines but think we should be more open minded
few day's back allready i checked the net on definitions for a passage maker
really, there are none, i think the best interpretation still be "making a passage"
meaning to me, sailing from contignent to contignent, no matter sail or motor
a 747 in my view is also a passage maker, knowing its territory, just as boats should

sure you can disagree and correct me when wrong or have found the definition

 

[dskira]

i dont want to cros your lines but think we should be more open minded
few day's back allready i checked the net on definitions for a passage maker
really, there are none, i think the best interpretation still be "making a passage"
meaning to me, sailing from contignent to contignent, no matter sail or motor
a 747 in my view is also a passage maker, knowing its territory, just as boats should

sure you can disagree and correct me when wrong or have found the definition

No yipster you are right. I use "passagemaker" as a general interpretation for vessel that make long passage crossing ocean, and mostly living aboard while traveling. (some travel with a captain, and the owner join the boat by plane, but that is a different league)
I am talking about only boat, the rest is not relevant. And in that case only motorboat.
So I just try to make a differentiation, to try to put the conversation more focused, without 747, Bentley or horses.
But it is perhaps not achievable.

Daniel

 

[mydauphin]

I think the biggest difference between a cruiser and a passagemaker, is the cruiser knows its territory, since it comes and go from the same area.
A passagemaker will go on territory it has no idea about.
And that is a big difference.
Daniel

I understand what you mean. I have traveled 1000s of miles mainly in Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. Never had to deal with icebergs, or cliffs, have had to deal with Hurricanes and tropical storms (right now there is one though it seems a bust). A smaller boat can make a big passage, just not alone, certain times of years, and very carefully in general.

I have been in a 54 foot Bertram following a 800 foot cruise ship from Puerto Rico to Miami, in what seemed 50 or 60 foot waves. Sometimes we were afraid of being thrown on the cruise ship. Also being hit by lighting in a storm and left totally powerless at night in a storm. That is why I always talk about redundant systems.

Every part of the world has different challenges, in Caribbean a boat with large draft can be a liability, but at least we don't have worry about freezing to death.

 

[Milan]

…
I hope you don´t see my contribution here as a hijack….

Of course your contributions are welcome. This thread is a sort of branch from your threads, after all.

… makes sense … to have jury rig … motorsailor does not, because that is not longer a motoryacht, it is a well powered sailing boat with all the related disadvantages.. No way around that fact…

Power – sail combination that I have in mind is quite different then most motor – sailors, much more practical and economical. (I hope).

What I don’t like in the most common motor sailor concept is that it is the combination of the bulky, high resistance hull with expensive rig shaped for windward sailing. Money for such a rig is to the big extent wasted because you can’t sail well to windward with such hull any way. What you get is complex, expensive boat to maintain .

This economical passage maker is optimised for economical powering. Very low resistance hull, long, low, lean. (length/beam = 1/5). No sail boat underwater appendages to slow her down under power. No sailing against the wind => means much cheaper, simpler, longer lasting, easy to handle, repair and maintain rig could be used.

Traditional Dutch short gaff rig, (that I’m familiar with), would be perfect for the task. Divided sail plan on the two masts of about 10 meter length above the deck. (Boat 20 meters long 4 meters wide). Everything can be handled manually, without winches. (well maybe some small winches if the crew lacks physical strength). It doesn’t take a lot of effort and at the same time sail area big and efficient enough to make it worthwhile. It could considerably enlarge the range.