Poor man’s passagemaker

[Milan]

Richard started discussion about perfect passagemaker. It seems that it is interesting concept to a lot of people. Unfortunately, most of them will never have a money for such a boat. I think it could be interesting to explore possibilities to design something similar, on the budget, sacrificing some of the space and luxuries, but still retaining able voyaging power boat. (Auxiliary sails allowed).

She has to be cheap and easy to build, use and maintain, very fuel efficient. That means long, narrow hull with a sharp bow. Cruising speeds 4 – 8 knots.

Money can be saved by avoiding expensive nautical toys and luxuries, keeping everything simple, work-boat style. During a voyage, fuel could be saved by careful route planning, making use of favorable currents and winds and motoring at slower revs.

I think that sardine carrier or older generation life boat type of boat with simple, auxiliary sails would be appropriate for the task.

In the attachment, some of the boat shapes and rig that I consider pretty closely suitable for the task. (Of course, they have to be modified for cruising). What do you think?

[wardd]

now can it have a Gardner?

[Milan]

Well, as it is meant for the poor, I suppose second hand engine would be OK. (Especially Gardner, even old one probably can outlive quite e few modern, higher speed engines).

[PAR]

Power or sail? Can it have a Lister?

[peter radclyffe]

2 gardners, & lister gennies, lol

[PAR]

Poor man's cruiser with a couple of very old Gardners and a Lister? No such thing, though twins are hard to argue against in a powerboat. I'd still want sail, though a healthy engine to keep schedules and annoy the neighboring yachts in the anchorage.

There are a lot of deals in fishing vessels, but don't expect them to be especially efficient or narrow. We still need some defining restraints, such as no concrete submarines.

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by Milan

Poor man’s passagemaker ..... What do you think?

How poor is poor here? What building budget do you have in mind? And what would the daily over all cruising budget be? I think you need to know these figures first to set your design goals.

Good Luck!
Angel

[Angélique]

Would something like this fit the bill?







Reuel Parker single-chine plywood dory cruising powerboat or motorsailer yacht. (diesel inboard or 2 four-cycle outboards in a well)

L.O.A. - 50'
L.W.L. - 44' 9"
BEAM - 12' 6"
DRAFT - 1' 10 ½"
DISPLACEMENT - 25,700 lbs.

This boat may also be built as a motor-sailer, with a centerboard (the trunk is located under the pilot-house sole) or a low-aspect-ratio fin keel and ballast bulb.



The biggest pic I could find on the motor sailer, here a blew up.

Here the drawings and the specs.


Good Luck!
Angel


PS - Found a bigger image of that motor sailer.

[peter radclyffe]

it needs more draught to be safer at sea

Originally Posted by Milan

Well, as it is meant for the poor, I suppose second hand engine would be OK. (Especially Gardner, even old one probably can outlive quite e few modern, higher speed engines).

Not to bother you,

but it is as valid here as it is on my threads, Gardner is out of business, is that so difficult to grasp?

You are not allowed to install junk yard equipment in a new built boat. And this will most probably not be a homebuild project?

So much about Listers and Gardners.

Jury rig was part of two boats on the original thread btw.

The "poor mans passagemaker" is a bit insane, sorry! There is no poor mans Rolls Royce, or executive jet! You either have the money to afford purchase, cruising and running expenses, or you have not. When the budget allows for cruising the world on a relatively decent boat, you find it at my thread already. If not, you don´t find it (or develop it) elsewhere.
Going smaller is not the solution as we all know. There is no passagemaker below 20m which would satisfy the requirements of a skilled sailor, especially in terms of seakeeping, speed and comfort, all being a safety issue first!

Regards
Richard

[srimes]

Originally Posted by PAR

We still need some defining restraints, such as no concrete submarines.

Awww. I'm sure a concrete sub running on whale blubber would the most economical passagemaker out there.



I agree we need definitions and constraints, or we'll end up with some tiny sailboat torture chamber.

[wardd]

Originally Posted by Angélique

How poor is poor here? What building budget do you have in mind? And what would the daily over all cruising budget be? I think you need to know these figures first to set your design goals.

Good Luck!
Angel

poor would be less than 25 million us

[wardd]

Originally Posted by apex1

Not to bother you,

but it is as valid here as it is on my threads, Gardner is out of business, is that so difficult to grasp?

You are not allowed to install junk yard equipment in a new built boat. And this will most probably not be a homebuild project?

So much about Listers and Gardners.

Jury rig was part of two boats on the original thread btw.

The "poor mans passagemaker" is a bit insane, sorry! There is no poor mans Rolls Royce, or executive jet! You either have the money to afford purchase, cruising and running expenses, or you have not. When the budget allows for cruising the world on a relatively decent boat, you find it at my thread already. If not, you don´t find it (or develop it) elsewhere.
Going smaller is not the solution as we all know. There is no passagemaker below 20m which would satisfy the requirements of a skilled sailor, especially in terms of seakeeping, speed and comfort, all being a safety issue first!

Regards
Richard

they are available used and can be rebuilt

I bet in the US there would be a way around the new construction angle

I figure that any diesel that had an extensive history in commercial use in trucks and buses can't be all bad

[goodwilltoall]

Milan,

Frugal Mans Passagemaker is more appropriate or (ASC-affordable seaworthy cruiser). The boat you show is very simiar to the MLB 36 which out of the hundreds if not thousands of lives saved never had a crew member lost. Have seen some conversions and with even sailing rigs installed. George Buehler claims his DDs are part of that heritage, the only one that comes close is the 81' Ellemaid, the other ones can be called FDs -Fat Ducks. Ellemaid has similar lines to the Heresshoffs "Marco Polo" done with panels and chines.

Marco Polo is also a lifeboat/whaler type, Beebe traveled on one before his famous passagemaker voyage and reported well of it. For some reason he just forgot all about it and chose to go with the inferior type, the Marco Polo is the better boat in almost all ways.

If a Gardener or Lister can be found and used, do it. What a bunch of hippocrites saying "save mother earth and recylce" and then trying to disallow use of an already manufactured and well proven engine. If an engine can reliably maintain 5-7MPH and be a fuel mizer its a great alternative as that is what a good sailboat is expected to do. What the reason to go 10-12MPH, beat up the boat, and cause stress to all components involved? If you have to rush yourself while on the water theres no reason to be out there.

Originally Posted by wardd

they are available used and can be rebuilt
I bet in the US there would be a way around the new construction angle
I figure that any diesel that had an extensive history in commercial use in trucks and buses can't be all bad

I am well aware of my own business, be sure. One can buy Gardners reman. to as new condition.

And I have no doubt that you can circumnavigate every law in all countries. But I don´t like to spent my hardly earned money for lawyers.
Therefore Gardners and Listers and the like, do not exist for any boatbuilder, it is not allowed to build them in..... period.