Poor man’s passagemaker

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Milan, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    I would agree Mydauphin. Seems there are many threads about the minimum yacht having to be around 50 foot. Just what is a Passagemaker.
    IS it a vessel that is capable of going anywhere? That's my impression, or one that has the greatest flexibility for travel or exporation. Seems jumping to 50 or 65 feet all the time would not meet that goal. A 60 foot catamaran may have an acceptable draft but a 24 or 30 foot beam will present other limitations.

    I know too that a good sail inventory means you won't need a ton of fuel. So I guess I would consider where this vessel was most likely to go and how much fuel would be required to motor from harms way or up a canal.

    Depends on where I would be going, but a Swede, Steve Yrvind, I think, has a small heavy built sharpe that I would rather be on in some areas than any 60 footer! I may have to wear a full faced helmet and Motocross body pads at times, but I would feel safe.

    Mydaulphin is being more reasonable in my mind in keeping with the "poor man's passagemaker" since evey vessel presents a compromise. Maybe the question becomes `what boat provides the most economical cruising and/or exploration opportunities at the lowest expense. OK, a boat is a hole in the water inwhich you pour money and the two happiest days of a boat owner's life is the day he buys a boat and the day he sells it!

    And, as to the money, I don't think saying Americans and middle class is the issue. I have only read cruising forums but I would have to say that I could afford the budgets described or inferred, but the question is, would a person of modest means with a 7+ digit net worth, trade half or all of it for a yacht only to take a loss at sale after the adventure? I realize that there are many that should name thier yacht "Super Ego" (and that if the truth be known, they couldn't afford what they suggest as minimal or what they got stuck with) but maybe the guy who lost his job in an auto factory would like to live a dream, what would be the best boat to do that?

    I'm more adventure oriented, it's part of my bucket list. If I want to sip pina coladas on a 70' yacht at my pleasure, I'd probably look at a time share with one, maybe two others, after all there is no reason for me to suffer alone! So, to me, the poor man's passagemaker would be about lowest entry cost, additional expenses in preparing the boat and provisions, then maintenance and upkeep. And how many are required to crew this poor man's tub?
     
  2. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    I'd go with that! Need to change the picture windows to something more secure I would think......A coustom steel keel saver up the bow might look good, it would protect my yacht during docking...LOL
     
  3. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

  4. u4ea32
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    u4ea32 Senior Member

    If you actually go cruising, you'll find that the vast majority of boats actually out there are in fact "poor man's passagemakers." So they certainly do exist!

    For example, a friend of mine did a multi-year voyage for $6000 USD, including buying the boat, all repairs, all food. He went transatlantic several times, through lots of very interesting and remote islands in the Pacific, around Cape Horn, way up the Amazon, ...

    The boat was an old, wood, lapstrake folkboat. No engine, electric pumps, refrigeration, ... Far more stuff excluded than included.

    Another bought a beautiful and very old (and very rotten) 50' wood sailboat for essentially nothing ($500 iirc). He and his family lived and cruised for over a decade in the Caribbean. Very low stress during hurricane season, as losing the boat would not be much of a fiscal impact.

    Another built a 50 or 60 foot wooden schooner, with old fashioned plank on frame construction, for $5000 USD in a very third world country. Beautiful, and I'm sure it will last for quite some time. Not a yacht, but a thick solid thing.

    Baltic Trading Schooners are also widely scattered over the oceans of the world. Essentially worthless, they comfortably get around the world.

    Read some of the articles by Capt'n Fatty Goodlander in Cruising World: he and his wife have been circling the globe for 40 years on a budget that has never exceeded $20K per year (he gave a specific number in an article recently).

    Robin Lee Graham is a famous example, getting most of the way around the world on a Lapworth 24, completing the voyage on an enormous Luders 33.

    So, sorry Richard, you are simply wrong on this point. Passagemaking by poor men happen all the time.
     
  5. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    One clarification, the size- fuel dilemma means sailboat under 50 feet. Only a much larger power cruiser of over 65 feet can usually carry enough fuel for crossing oceans. Myself I chose a large power boat, sails are a pain, and I rather island hop. Would not cross ocean on anything without a very deep keel and self-righting. Present boat, not a true passagemaker but dont need a mast or sails. Crossing oceans not what I want to do yet. May be one day I can fly a kite for passagemaking.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I heard that lie several times, it doesn´t make it become true!


    That sounds like a true story, but from the forelast century of course. Since I am travelling the world (thats 45 years now) you could not build a 50 to 60ft seaworthy schooner at 5000$, not even in the last corner of the third world.

    These essentially worthless boats are the ones with the highest prices in Europe, surprising.
    Sure not mate. I did never talk about sailing boats! And we discuss here, what was not discussed on my threads, a probably smaller, hence cheaper approach, including motorsailors. But still newbuilt boats, not rotten junks or nutshells given for free.
    But it seems you are a bit sloppy when reading other peoples articles and comments. Or do you just lie to make your wild stories "round" ?
    So sorry buddy, but you are wrong on every point here.
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Actually, this isn't true, though you have listed a few exceptions to the rule, it's not true at all. Can it be done? Sure. Is it commonly done? Certainly not.

    The last time I crossed the Atlantic, it was in a Swan 44 and I blasted across, getting lucky with a storm and trades. I topped up my fuel at Sa Rapita, after stopping in Funchal in route. I used about $150 in fuel during the crossing. When I eventually tied up in Le Cap-d Agde, I ran into an old client of mine, enjoying a cruise to the Med. His 68' Hatteras required a bladder be installed and his fuel bill, which he thought was pretty good was about $10,000.

    Yachting can be done on a lower level, but it's still not a inexpensive thing to do, unless you can accept using a 5 gallon bucket as a head and berthing at the end of the fuel dock, because "management" will not allow your "yacht" to tie up near the "real yachts".
     
  8. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    The only expense is not the fuel or the boat all those things can be minimized and saved for. The cost of living in the style that you are accustomed to is something else. A toilet is not expensive , dumping the holding tank somewhere priceless...

    On your friends Hatteras, I have a friend with monster sportfish, every time he goes to Bermuda he blow my complete annual budget in a few days. Doesn' t mean all people work that way, but big horsepower means high fuel bill.
     
  9. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    ...see the Origami boat site if you want to build crap out of used materials and sail away for a year and a day.......of course it can be done, but who really wants to live a life like that.....the most important things in life are a good partner (one in a million), good fresh food, a hot shower when it is cold and a comfortable bed to sleep in.

    ...if you wish to sleep in a damp, cold boat with a cheap ***** and wear the same clothes for a week and wash in cold stagnant water, why not just go for a cheap holiday to India.....they will be happy to accomodate you (at least till the $6000 runs out anyhow)......get real fellas, comfortable cruising yachts/boats are unfortunately expensive......such is life.
     
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  10. yipster
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    yipster designer

    second that but why that 5 gallon bucket PAR cant we use the "head" anymore?
     
  11. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "I wouldn't go out in the north atlantic in winter in a ocean-going dory."

    Even an aircraft carrier has a hard time in some conditions.

    A large number of circumnavigations have been done with out seeing 35K winds.

    That is why so many "Po Boy" cruises are fine.

    They WAIT for the best seasonable conditions.

    Installing the R.R. "Victory at Sea " tape and departing NYC in Feb for the med is not on most folks "To Do" list.

    Realistic range , realistic cruising desires , and a realistic budget are needed.

    *****

    TO my mind the only reason to build , not buy a used boat, would be for the efficency.

    RICK a contributor on this board hit on one key to a efficient low powered boat , a HUGE slow propeller.

    Not much news to the ESSO MARU ,

    but getting a say 40 ft offshore cruiser to spin a 36 to 40 inch ,2 blade prop with a hard working 40 hp engine and 6-1 or 8-1 reduction might be hard to do as a refit.




    FF
     
  12. u4ea32
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    u4ea32 Senior Member

    Apex, generally you seem reasonable. I sincerely hope you return to rationality soon.
     
  13. u4ea32
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    u4ea32 Senior Member

    I won't bite on your bizarre assertion that I'm not being truthful here. What could ever be my motivation for lying on these forums, where I sign with my real name?

    Let's not argue about the numerical value of "common" here, its not productive. Can we agree that one sees about as many transient yachts in poor condition as in Bristol condition in remote anchorages (places where passagemakers are), like in the Caribbean, Pacific, Mexico, Bermuda, Azores, and so on?

    Exactly.

    And to be sure, I don't cruise like a floating slum. My point is that many people choose to do so.
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    David, you need to get a hold of some real figures. No one is saying you're not telling the true, just that your perception of reality isn't remotely aligned with what is actually taking place. Folks doing cut rate cruising are the rare exception to the cruising life style. Yes, a small percentage are cruising with surprisingly small incomes, but this is the exception and the figures easily bear this out. Just take a look at the flags flying from the yacht is Freeport, which is just an easy hop from south Florida. You don't see Buehler yachts and Jim Bob's shanties everywhere, you see thousands of yachts, most production, many custom all quite expensive. It's the same in every port of call I've been in except third world countries, which really don't count, as you're seeing many more working craft then yachts.

    Then the point you are making is valid, even if it's based on incorrect assumtions. The percentage of cut rate cruisers, compared to the mean average is the whole point. "Cruising on a Small Income" is often listed as the bible to going to sea cheap. Naturally, the very folks that wrote the book and took to sea, are doing so in a custom designed and built yacht, by a world renowned yacht designer!

    I think we are in agreement on most of this, but cruising on a shoe string just isn't common, nor very easy. I've tried it. Denying the actual numbers, in regard to cruising yachts and their economic status, just seems less then fruitful in a thread titled as this one is. I'm not sure how many distant ports you've cruised to, but I've been up and down the east coast of north and central America, cross the Atlantic a number of times, cruised the med a few times and been in hundreds of ports. There's a clear and obvious pattern to all of this and it doesn't have anything to do with folks that shop at Wal-Mart.
     

  15. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I think what happens and it may happen to me, is that they go cruising and get poorer every year. They did not start on a piece of junk, but they end up there by entropy.
     
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