Poor man’s passagemaker

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Milan, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You don´t get it boys?

    This thread was meant to find a passagemaking

    M O T O R B O A T


    design.
    Not the minimum sailor one can possibly survive one week of coastal cruising.
     
  2. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,323
    Likes: 104, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Milan, http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=8934209 Maybe something like this crayboat might suit you, there's a few others on boatpoint with rigs & fitout, all the best in your endeavours from Jeff
     
  3. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

  4. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Is the perfect one is not the one who do the job?
    It is a strange statement, like an oxymoron, no?
    Just asking the difference between the two definition. Could you elaborate what you mean?
    Daniel
     
  5. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    A Mercedes-Benz S class or Bentley might be the perfect State of the Art car, but we all drive Camry or Lexus or Chevy. Why? Because we have different compromises to make and the perfect whatever may not be what we presently want. So my question is what is the bare minimum you want in a boat. Might be an interesting discussion
     
  6. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,005
    Likes: 326, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    OK, here some (sold :D) examples from the EU . . . . .

    -----------------------------------------

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]

    http://www.scheepsmakelaardij.nl/schepenlijst.php?lang=en&ship_id=967 (the same in PDF)

    This one^ was asking € 125k (if I remember well), long time for sale, could have gone far below € 100k. Conversion design Olivier F. Van Meer.

    -----------------------------------------

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://easternyachts.com/elisabeth/index.htm

    -----------------------------------------

    OP: ‘‘(Auxiliary sails allowed)’’ and ‘‘(Of course, they have to be modified for cruising)’’

    Cheers!
    Angel
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I agree it can be an interresting discussion, but not with car comparisons. It doesn't work that way.
    the discussion can be based only on boat, not on car, airplane, balloon, bicycle, rocket, jetliner, brothel, belly dancing, well you get the drift.
    Boat is boat, nothing else.
    So let answer my question without dodging it with Bentley and other marmalade non sense.
    Don't take it personally but it is nonsense.
    Daniel
     
  8. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Is that a bow rudder I see?
     
  9. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    To make sure we are on the same discussion mydauphin:
    Middle of the winter, Atlantic North, snow storm, wind force nine Beaufort.
    That is the kind of weather a "passagemaker" can have in no time.
    Middle of Summer, Lion Gulf Mediterranean, the cliff are high, the wind come from force 4to force 9 in 15 minutes. The waves are short, high and rather deadly by the brutality of the ratio length high.
    If your boat can't take it, you die since you go to the cliffs
    That is the kind of weather a "passagemaker" can have in no time.
    This is the reality.
    Not the Bentley.

    Daniel
     
  10. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,005
    Likes: 326, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    No, it's fixed.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I think the biggest difference between a cruiser and a passagemaker, is the cruiser knows its territory, since it comes and go from the same area.
    A passagemaker will go on territory it has no idea about.
    And that is a big difference.
    Daniel
     
  12. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 3,486
    Likes: 95, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 1148
    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    i dont want to cros your lines but think we should be more open minded
    few day's back allready i checked the net on definitions for a passage maker
    really, there are none, i think the best interpretation still be "making a passage"
    meaning to me, sailing from contignent to contignent, no matter sail or motor
    a 747 in my view is also a passage maker, knowing its territory, just as boats should

    sure you can disagree and correct me when wrong or have found the definition
     
  13. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    No yipster you are right. I use "passagemaker" as a general interpretation for vessel that make long passage crossing ocean, and mostly living aboard while traveling. (some travel with a captain, and the owner join the boat by plane, but that is a different league)
    I am talking about only boat, the rest is not relevant. And in that case only motorboat.
    So I just try to make a differentiation, to try to put the conversation more focused, without 747, Bentley or horses.
    But it is perhaps not achievable.

    Daniel
     
  14. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    I understand what you mean. I have traveled 1000s of miles mainly in Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. Never had to deal with icebergs, or cliffs, have had to deal with Hurricanes and tropical storms (right now there is one though it seems a bust). A smaller boat can make a big passage, just not alone, certain times of years, and very carefully in general.

    I have been in a 54 foot Bertram following a 800 foot cruise ship from Puerto Rico to Miami, in what seemed 50 or 60 foot waves. Sometimes we were afraid of being thrown on the cruise ship. Also being hit by lighting in a storm and left totally powerless at night in a storm. That is why I always talk about redundant systems.

    Every part of the world has different challenges, in Caribbean a boat with large draft can be a liability, but at least we don't have worry about freezing to death.
     

  15. Milan
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 317
    Likes: 24, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 279
    Location: The Netherlands

    Milan Senior Member

    Of course your contributions are welcome. This thread is a sort of branch from your threads, after all.

    Power – sail combination that I have in mind is quite different then most motor – sailors, much more practical and economical. (I hope).:)

    What I don’t like in the most common motor sailor concept is that it is the combination of the bulky, high resistance hull with expensive rig shaped for windward sailing. Money for such a rig is to the big extent wasted because you can’t sail well to windward with such hull any way. What you get is complex, expensive boat to maintain .

    This economical passage maker is optimised for economical powering. Very low resistance hull, long, low, lean. (length/beam = 1/5). No sail boat underwater appendages to slow her down under power. No sailing against the wind => means much cheaper, simpler, longer lasting, easy to handle, repair and maintain rig could be used.

    Traditional Dutch short gaff rig, (that I’m familiar with), would be perfect for the task. Divided sail plan on the two masts of about 10 meter length above the deck. (Boat 20 meters long 4 meters wide). Everything can be handled manually, without winches. (well maybe some small winches if the crew lacks physical strength). It doesn’t take a lot of effort and at the same time sail area big and efficient enough to make it worthwhile. It could considerably enlarge the range.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.