Poor man’s passagemaker

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Milan, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I think it's agreed that yachting isn't for the poor. It always kills me when folks say, "I want to build a 40' yacht, but I can only afford home improvement store materials." These people should buy a 18' Bayliner and hole up until they can afford to toss thousand dollar bills in the bilge of a real cruiser.

    Cruisers for budget minded are small and probably sail. I have a few designs to that goal. If you want standing headroom in the head, so you don't have to squat to pee, then you have to go bigger and power becomes an option. I don't think a production budget cruiser is viable for several reasons, one being the cost of new diesels.

    In the end a budget cruiser is a bit of a misnomer as most can't even afford a vacation home at the beach, let alone spare the time to go on anything but week or two cruises. Maybe this is more of an American problem then else where, but most Americans can't find a free month or two in the course of a year.
     
  2. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    frank smith Senior Member

    Why not make a big dory catamaran with a deck designed to take a used RV. Just need
    to add a power take off for propulsion.
     
  3. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Any one knows what draught Tom Colvin has on his 33' to 52' ocean-going dory's ?

    Link:
    I guess there is more info in his book about this. Who has it and is willing to look it up?

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  4. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    angelique, is that a coble you have,
    what would you rather cross the north atlantic in winter in,
    a boat with 15 inches draught, or 15 feet draught
     
  5. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    There is no poor man's boat. Boats are always expensive to build and maintain. Let say that some boats are a bit less expensive, many can be very expensive.
    I'm not fond of flat bottomed boats since I've spent a few months in a flat bottomed mine sweeper as lieutenant ( long time ago...): hard pounding, "dry" fast roll and a bucket of salt water inside wets everything. The hydrodynamics are very far from the optimal. The first lesson in engineering is that rectangles are not rigid but triangles are, and there is little complication to use a 2 chines by side hull with better hydrodynamics. It's also less ugly.

    About using a museum piece as engine, I do not see very well the advantages. Modern diesels can be as reliable and lasting if not more, are lighter, smaller, more efficient and do not vibrate, smoke and smell. I do not think that with the pollution regulations, you could build a brand new boat with an old engine that not complies with the regulations at least in Europe. Richard pointed that.

    There a kind of long distance motor boat that can be more efficient than the monohull: the trimaran. It's worth to consider this option as these boats are seaworthy and efficient.

    Ilan Voyager, the 65 feet Nigel Irens trimaran made "cheaply" in strip plank and fiberglass reaches 28 knots with one engine of 240 HP...for cruising at 12 knots (before the 15 knots small hump in the resistance curve) it will be using about 60 HP at max. This tri made the British Island circumnavigation at 21 knots using 2000 liters of fuel for 2200 NM. A fast calculation shows that it was using about 140 HP to keep 21 knots. Not bad...

    A 40 feet trimaran designed by Morrelli crossed the Pacific at 10.68 knots using 2 diesel outboards Yanmar of 27 HP (not the most efficient motor, as outboards are penalized by the too small propellers and the very fast engines). I do think that a 45-50 feet trimaran optimized hydro-dynamically for 12 knots could be very simple and efficient with good amenities for a couple. It's the old discussion of very slim hulls.
     
  6. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I disagree. You can buy a used boat for $5000. The hull will be sound in need of a lot of tlc. diesel engine can be rebuilt and interior built from home improvement store. It won't be a yacht, it will be a boat. I have seem plenty of people living on these and worse at any free anchorage. Mind you it takes a special kind of person to live without power and water from the rain. But guess what - they live their dream. I have spent a bit more and have AC, electricity and even internet... But it is not a rich mans yacht by any means either...
     
  7. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Agree 100% and that's why I have always owned coastal cruisers...I know I'm never going to cross any oceans, and until I semi retired just did not have the time to get anywhere new on my holidays.

    Even the cheapest new build (and you can argue whether or not they are capable),let's say Buehler Ducks, a 46' cost $500k brand new FOB China....how many hours and how much would it cost to build on your own??

    Either way,much more than a decent ocean view house on an acre in the Gulf Islands.


    Define "poor man" as $500k and lower???

    BTW dauphin... he means passagemaker. A $5k boat 200 nm off of Hawaii? Not me :)
     
  8. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I know a couple of people who flew to Hawaii bought a sailboat for $5000 and sailed into the sunset. The lived their dream while young, relatively poor and still happy.

    Guys how many of you will talk boats,work your whole lives, and never get out and enjoy it. Buying a boat for $500k and then saving the money to live a rich mans dream is very difficult.
    It is kind of saving for a Ferrari while working for living at McDonalds. You are much better of buying a used clunker and driving around and slowly upgrading even if you never get to a Ferrari.

    Everything is life is a sacrifice, even making money. You have to see what you are willing to sacrifice. I don't need marble floors on a boat, walnut veneer or a dishwasher, etc... I can drop $200k of the price of that passagemaker just taking toys off.
     
  9. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

  10. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    dauphin....

    And I know a couple,my uncle and aunt,who did a very similar thing and were never seen again....:(
     
  11. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Anyone can allways buy a used and "cheap" boat and sail to sunset etc.. BUT.. I think it's best to stay in a concept of a new build, meaning new boat with new gear below and on the deck. To have a something worth investigating we should have an ambitious reguirements for the range etc (otherwise allmost anything goes..).
    So how about setting range around 6000nm, enough from Cape Town to Sydney or from Wellinton to Montevideo? To have somewhat cheaper boat, so that it's achievable with "middleclass" income we have to limit the cost to lets say 120k€ $150k if build by a boat yard? Is it realistic without sails or does it need some sticks or smth else?
     
  12. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The usual 40-50 ft displacement boat will get not much better than 3nm/g at LRC.

    And that's going to be a used boat , not yard built for $150,000.

    So, 6000nm is at least 2200Gallons (10% reserve).

    It takes a huge proportion of the hull space just to hold this much fuel.

    And the tanks are there , full or not.

    Sails are far better for extreme range requirements , or the boat gets really BIG!

    FF
     
  13. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Yes, the avatar pic is a Yorkshire Coble . . Yorkshire Coble.jpg . . a tough coastal boat . . as you know . . :)

    I wouldn't go out in the north atlantic in winter in a ocean-going dory. While cruising you do things in the right season with the capabilities of your boat in mind. But I'm confident that every well build and wisely handled Colvin is capable to fulfill what he claims they are able to.

    Good Luck!
    Angel
     
  14. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    yipster designer

    those figures, actually apex 30 litre too, are impressive
    yet i belive most passagemaker owners could care less tho
    good boats could be build half price but never cheap
    and toy's like radar satnav ac wont chance that pic
    i have a frend who wants me to put 15k in an old kotter like this
    and sail to indonesia making a living on the way as he did before
    i like plastic better but even on a raft a poor man can make a passage
    also was admirering many of todays yacht designers that build
    boats often low budget when young and did so but i like my luxery
    i do miss the salt snif and am low on cash getting an old deskchair sailor
     

  15. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    So a how about motorsailor?
     

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