Modern hirondelle

[Manfred.pech]

Thank you. Did not know the CAPER before. Found this: http://www.upstreampaddle.com/media/Caper Cat to the Cape01.pdf . Really a very interesting design.
The tramp is great but they are very rare here. I have never seen one sailing - only pics. For long time germany has been poor with multihulls - much too conservative esp. in the clubs. Had difficulties when I wanted to join with my first multi (catamaran) 1969. Acceptance came when I´ve let them sail my selfbuilt cat.
I hope you will find your favorite design.

 

[guzzis3]

Oh yes Jesse Martin. He wrote a book about that trip and got a little famous.

I bought a 3.5 meter catamaran today. I am amazed it is so light, I can lift both hulls beams and rudders on my own. 1.7 meters wide, 6.1 meter mast. Everything on it is so tiny....single sail. We shall see how it tacks

I may have already found it thanks to redreuben. The ONLY concern I have about the tristar 24 is the height above the double beads. It's very tight. Only about 18 or 19 inches measuring off the image on the internet. That's not a lot of space to fit a mattress and a body.

http://www.edhorstmanmultihulldesigns.com/pdf/Trimaran24 6 view specs.pdf

I also figured out why I discounted that boat previously. When I looked at it before the raised cabin was not an option, nor was the fared hull, but more importantly in 2005 I did not know you could trailer a boat up to 2.9 meters in aus easily. Now all you need is a sign, some flags and a copy of the rules. It might be 800 kg empty and I can get as much headroom as I want, it's just the headroom over the bunks.

 

[sailhand]

hi guzzi3 I have been working on exactly what you are talking about for some time now. I live on a cat and spent a bit of time designing my own tender. the success of that inspired me to do something a little larger that would double as a caravan when on a trailer. I still want to go out to lady musgrave on it though if I ever feel the need, with the obvious weather proviso of course. my design has 1850 headroom inside the hulls and it is basically an oversized jarcat red baron etc. this can be done quite easily but you need to do it sensibly by keeping the weight low in the hulls to aid stability and having a short rig. I just want to cruise I dont need to do even ten knots under sail and am happy to motor a lot. I wanted a two piece rig in a tabernacle possibly free standing as it would be quite small and was even contemplating a headsail only rig or something like the hobie bravo rig. this design is more about the accomodation than the sailing and that is an attribute I am more than happy with. construction is foam core, the good stuff no polyurethane from yandina, and very very simple. I have made concessions to liveability more so than sailing performance as that is my main priority. I dont care if I only do 6 knots to get there the important thing is I will be there doing it not sitting at home wishing I was. cost as of about 12 months ago for foam and glass to do the boat was around the seven grand mark in vinylester and divinycell. It will be really simple and quick to build compared to something like a jarcat. I am using heavier laminates and thicker foam with less stringers etc in a monocoque construction. full king size bed and massive shower and toilet with a reasonable galley. headroom above bunk is about 1200 I think from memory. basically its a floating hotel room that I can use on land also. the overall length is 7.6 metres and height from keel to cabintop is 1900. yep its chunky but it doesnt look too bad and I dont really care its what it does that I am concerned with not how it looks.

 

[guzzis3]

I don't suppose you have pictures or drawings ?

Polyurethane from yandina ?? I'm sorry you've lost me there....

 

[sailhand]

You can buy cheap foam from yandina on the sunny coast that is used by the transport industry and there is a few boat builders that use it as well. It is OK for furniture etc but doesn't have the sheer properties that are required for a reasonable size boat. Sorry I don't have a copy of the plans with me at the moment as my laptop is elsewhere. If you pm me your email address I can email you a pdf of a slightly smaller version by forwarding an email of the drawing that i sent to a friend.

 

[guzzis3]

Thank you for your reply.

I know the difference between polyurethane foam and PVC. Pity you can't get PVC for the poly price I just thought there was something specific going on up in yandina...

Funny place up there. I tried to contact stallion marine and cure composites to see about the simpson F1 hulls. No response. Called, emailed...nothing...maybe they have so much work they have no time for me...

Anyway I'll pm you an email address...Thank you in advance. I will be interested to see your plans.

 

[Manfred.pech]

Building a SCARAB 8 (Ray Kendrick). Fotos from building a folding trailable Trimaran: http://www.trimanufaktur.de/Fotos . What a lot of work but the result...!

And fotos from a 22ft (6,7052m): http://www.voile.org/trimaran/

 

[sailhand]

guzzis3 I am actually working on a simpson formula one at the moment. I am building a hardtop for the owner just one sheet of foam to afford some shade upstairs. I have spoken to the guys at core composites before about pet foam for another project they still had the molds at that stage. Mate it would be heaps cheaper and easier to buy a simpson formula one than make one. I don't think you'd get the materials for the price of a second hand one and even with the mold there is years of part time work to build one. You should be able to grab one for around the 25k mark. Just the rig and sails will set you back somewhere around 15. We just sold a second hand rig for that size boat with no sails, winches, deck gear, sheets etc for 4k and it was 15 years old. Something that uses an off the beach cat for donor parts is probably going to be a lot cheaper. Just the amount of time and effort to build boards and rudders with cases tillers etc is scary. If you can use all those as donor parts that just bolt straight on it would be so much cheaper and easier. The simpson does have plenty of headroom in the hulls and still looks OK, the flare in the hulls above the waterline gives you heaps of room inside the hulls and they sail ok. The trailerable part is questionable though, they do pull apart and fit a trailer but the time taken to do it and the cost of the trailer, put it this way there is 4 for sale at the moment and not one has a trailer with it. A mate with an f 32 farrier, which I think has the best system for trailing and folding, doesn't use it much due to the effort involved. As for aesthetics Richard woods eagle 24 is my style of boat, I like that type of cat profile but in a jarcat style at 2.9 beam or even 3.4 beam , the widest you can go without an escort, and just apply for a permit to trail it. The smaller free standing rig in a tabernacle would make it much easier to handle and rig but you could hardly call it a sailing boat more of a wind assisted motor boat. That is the overall compromise I think I need to make in order to make the boat easy to use. If i did make one I would not build a trailer but at a 100 odd dollars a day I would hire a car trailer or easier still just hire a crane truck and lift it on and take it home. My experience with big trailers is that they cost around 10k and average around a grand a year to maintain with rego etc. Especially in the territory where I'm originally from the rust and brakes is a killer. It is much cheaper to just hire a car trailer and do it yourself, especially with the network of hire trailers where you can hire one way.

 

[Ray Kendrick]

Building a SCARAB 8 (Ray Kendrick). Fotos from building a folding trailable Trimaran: http://www.trimanufaktur.de/Fotos . What a lot of work but the result...!
Wow Manfred, congratulations you are doing a beautiful job on your Scarab 8. It is a lot of work building a trimaran but you are getting there. All the best, Ray Kendrick

 

[guzzis3]

Sailhand:

If you know of a F1 for $25k please point me at it. One just sold at 29 but the ones left for sale are 38 and 55!! and I saw Rob Roy at sandgate the other week, didn't think it was special. Maybe I'm missing something...

I've always been baffled by the praise people heap on simpsons, and the even more optimistic prices than usual people ask. They are ok boats but I've never got the gushing they seem to inspire...

Anyway I wanted to find out how much they would want for bare hull and decks skins. I can fit the flat panel stuff as well as anyone but getting the curvy bits laid up in the mould with shiny gelcoat outers would be a nice start.

You probably didn't see my other thread bout broken beams. That as the idea to fix the demounting problem.

I don't understand the 3.5 meter thing. When I saw Mick Waller's 25' boat I contacted queensland transport. They said you can't do that with a light vehicle, you need heavy vehicle license and properly registered trailer. Maybe I was talking to the wrong person or didn't ask the right question, but if I was told right there are going to be a lot of unhappy people building narrow cats who won't be able to trailer them.

Anyway I'm trying to find out more about the Tristar 24. Apart from headroom over the bunks that looks like the boat I've always wanted. I've always loved the tristars and the 27-9 is a magic boat, but with the ability to fold to oversize trailering width for me that's hard to beat.

Anyway for now my focus is on my new toy 3.5 meter catamaran. Nearly killed myself trying to sail it on saturday in 25 knots on moreton bay. Idiot I am ...

 

[Manfred.pech]

Building a SCARAB 8 (Ray Kendrick). Fotos from building a folding trailable Trimaran: http://www.trimanufaktur.de/Fotos . What a lot of work but the result...!
Wow Manfred, congratulations you are doing a beautiful job on your Scarab 8. It is a lot of work building a trimaran but you are getting there. All the best, Ray Kendrick

Sorry, Ray,

I´m not building a SCARAB 8. The fotos are from trimanufaktur and as far as I know from their homepage they want to sell building kits http://www.trimanufaktur.de/Bausatz for this wonderful trimaran http://www.teamscarab.com.au/ in germany. I´m far too old for building this great boat. Sorry

http://www.teamscarab.com.au/

 

[Manfred.pech]

Anyway for now my focus is on my new toy 3.5 meter catamaran. Nearly killed myself trying to sail it on saturday in 25 knots on moreton bay. Idiot I am ...

Do you enjoy your catamaran now?

 

[guzzis3]

I need to repair some stuff. One of the shrouds has a broken strand. I'm weighing up whether to replace them in stainless or dyneema.

A number of people have recommended against dyneema, but I'm thinking about giving it a whirl. It would be good splicing practice, the money is about the same and not very much. I've cut my hands more than once over the years on a sharp crimp or broken strand. It would be a cheap experiment and if it's no good it's only another $100 to change it back.

On the other hand I've never made stainless shrouds myself and am not confident doing it. You have to make the pairs exactly the right length I suppose...

The sail is totally shagged, and I lost a batten. I've got a second hand hobie sail in the post which I'm going to cut down.

So I won't be sailing for a few weeks until I can get the work sorted. And I'm going into hospital on friday so that will put me out of action for a while.

I'll let you know.

I did a sailing report here:

http://www.catsailor.net/index.php?/topic/7696-v-35-sailing-report/

It might give you a laugh. I'm not normally that incompetent, it was just one of those days....

 

[sailhand]

Definitely dynex dux it is great and much lighter. The splicing is really easy just use some bent wire instead of fids it works heaps better and much easier. The locked brummel splice is really easy.

 

[guzzis3]

Thank you for the reply.

I'm torn on the rope. I can get normal Sk78 on ebay $40 for 20 meters of 4 mm.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131923939855?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Lyros is $91 from here:

http://www.deckhardware.com.au/liros-magic-d-pro-sk78-4mm-20m-roll

and I'm wondering if I can use nylon thimbles:

http://www.deckhardware.com.au/4mm-nylon-thimble

bend it on a round sheave or if I need to buy these:

http://www.premiumropes.com/closed-stainless-steel-rope-thimble

They are cheap enough but the shipping flat rate of 18 euro kicks it up a bit... I don't know if I can use normal open stainless thimbles. And dux is only available in 5mm and up...I know it's supposed to be better but from what I've found the SK78 isn't bad in the small dinghy size of 4 mm...

Buying the stainless wire/crimps/thimbles from whitworths is $75 so definitely cheaper, but I don't have any confidence making them up myself. If the lengths are out even by a bit I'm ... whereas provided I make them short enough to cover stretch the rope doesn't matter. I'd like to find a rigger in brisbane who can make up stainless shrouds, otherwise I'm going to try the dyneema.

Oh and I've been doing some work on the 729 hull. Once I've modeled something up I'm happy with I'll post details here.