The perfect Passagemaker? (style within this genre)

[MikeJohns]

The Fairmile style would be my choice. An ageless style and grace that will never be outdated while having enough practical features to be interesting to the eye. They are capable and comfortable passage makers too.

 

[FAST FRED]

If a cruiser is going to loose the space aft for any kind of roundy or pointy stern , then the space lost should be made up by having the stern usefull im manuvering.

The typical tug stern will allow turning by resting the stern against a wall or pilings , a big help in tight quarters.

FF

 

[daiquiri]

I've re-read the initial post... Ok, we should be talking only about aesthetics here. But still, I believe that a trans-oceanic yacht with a 90 days of autonomous navigation requirement should not have huge lateral windows in combination with low freeboard, such as seen in some of the models proposed in various posts. Those are weak points of the structure and are too vulnerable in case of a severe storm with breaking waves. It is a possibility one has to consider and account for at design and styling stage, imho. Richard surely already knows these things, so to him this is probably a superfluous consideration. Still, I wanted to say this after seeing some of the pics - you guys please feel free to dissent.

 

[RHP]

Is the attachment 46295 the Cammenga Atlantic 72.
Thats the one everybody's Ga Ga over right? Well I'm Ga Ga too
BUT ..it's not perfect.
1. The shape of the stern is too close to part of a sphere. Perhaps it would look better if it had a reverse curve stem like many Dutch boats. Perhaps it needs to be more elliptical or perhaps I just can't see the stern well enough. The stern on my Willard 30 is more attractive and I consider it average for the type.
My favorite Trawler is the Nordhavn 46 and it's stern is even less attractive.
Come to think of it the only stern I can think of (and I have a pic) that I like that would be suitable for the type is on this Garden designed wood trawler that stopped in Thorne Bay 2yrs ago.
2. The other thing I don't like is those slanted upper deck posts. They have become vogue and I consider them trite (visually). Ther'e slab like too. Two inch ss stanchion tubes slanted but slanted less would look better and allow the
sheer line and upper deck line to dominate the midship lines as they should.

Easy Rider

Easy,

I´ve seen pictures of these Cammenga yachts for 30 years and I´ve never had an issue with teh stern, maybe its the angle of this particular pic however for me the design flows from bow to stern.

These boats were build in the mid/late 70´s so the upper deck posts are not following a modern trend but following the design of the North Sea trawlers from that period.

She´s period and IMHO stylishly very effective.

Richard

 

[Pierre R]

Is it just me or do others think that boats that don't invite one to dissembark and board a dink easily just don't look right for a passagemaker?

 

[goodwilltoall]

Sorry for the confusion,

The Illinois is a smaller ship than 25M and also it would not be appropriate for ocean journeys, but the styling is excellent.

The George Buehler "Ellemaid" has good proportions except for it being to top heavy. Also it seems to have good seaworthiness.

In regards to "Windhorse": Has good styling.

 

[Easy Rider]

RHP,
I thought I was harsh on the cat man but you don't hold back at all.
I was critical of the Cammenga like someone that said Farah Fawcet had 14 too many eye lashes. Just saying the stern wasn't quite right and showing a boat that had a good stern. The saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is misleading, evasive and simply not true. The ability to know beauty is to observe, consider, analyze and compare over a long period of time. To interact heavily in the company of those that DO know beauty is probably the fastest road to knowing it yourself. DNA may play a part in it but I think it is mostly learned. Form follows function but the resulting form may NOT be beautiful.
But it may perform it's function beautifully.
The definition of design is "An organized solution to a problem" There is nothing in the definition about beauty.

 

[wardd]

I think the liberty ship was beautiful

 

[dskira]

Most probably I will put a 80 liter Grenaa Diesel in a boat of such size. That is a Danish make and the price is not German either..............500.000 US$ per piece!!! But they last forever and run on everything that looks a bit oily. TBO 15.000hrs......


Regards
Richard

Now we are going to the heart of the beast.
We have already a let say 8 tons in main machinery without any ancillaries.
So the underwater start to be interesting, we are talking ship here.
A nice transpacific range perhaps (7000 nm)?
A good 15 tons fuels, some 8 tons freshwater, some 2 tons black water.
6 tons of genny and ancillaries.
Food for 6 for 40 days 2tons to 5 tons
We start with a nice 44 tons (a vague approximation) of inside weight in full displacement mode.
Now we will have the rest meaning the ship and all the ancillaries around.
Good displacement never hurt. At let say 22m. Lwl a healthy D/L of 317 @ 136 tons. Can go easily to 160 tons.
Just thinking outloud

Daniel

 

[BillAU]

How about a 15m (50ft) Defever Offshore Cruiser from 1970? Similar to the 45ft Defever in the picture below.

Specs' are as follows:

Builder: Defever

Dimensions:
LOA: 50 ft 0 in
Beam: 14 ft 5 in
Maximum Draft: 5 ft 9 in
Bridge Clearance: 36 ft 0 in

Engine:
Engine Brand: Caterpillar
Engine Model: D-330
Total Power: 200HP

Displacement: 60000

Tanks
Fuel: 1400
Fresh Water: 400
Holding: 40

I'm no expert on cruising the world in a small power cruiser but I think the Defever 15m Offshore Cruiser, with 1400 gal' of diesel could Island hop the Pacific and would be a suitable boat and, to me...They look good too

 

[Pierre R]

I'm no expert on cruising the world in a small power cruiser but I think the Defever 15m Offshore Cruiser, with 1400gals of diesel could Island hop the Pacific and would be a suitable boat and, to me...They look good too

In my opinion, definitely not. Her hull form is not suitable, her house is not protected enough and she has does not have enough fuel for island hopping the Pacific.

The Defever is a great coastal cruiser very suitable for going to the Carib from North America or Indonesia from Australia. Crossing the Atlantic would be a crap shoot.

 

[BillAU]

In my opinion, definitely not. Her hull form is not suitable, her house is not protected enough and she has does not have enough fuel for island hopping the Pacific.

The Defever is a great coastal cruiser very suitable for going to the Carib from North America or Indonesia from Australia. Crossing the Atlantic would be a crap shoot.

Like I said in my post, I'm no expert on what "I" term, small cruisers, I'm more used to crossing oceans on ships with a 14,000HP, or larger, twin aposed Duxford engine but...I do like the look of a DeFever

On further research on DeFever yachts, I found the following on Arthur DeFever, the designer, on http://www.defevercruisers.com/defever_history.asp

Quote:
Arthur DeFever spent his early years designing commercial tuna clippers for the San Diego fleet. These vessels proved highly reliable and seaworthy. They stayed away from port for weeks at a time, traveling long distances to Central and South America before returning safely with their catch.

In the early 1960s, Arthur joined the Offshore Cruising Society. At the time, long range cruising in private yachts was virtually always done in sailboats. His friends suggested that he design a seaworthy cruising powerboat that would have sufficient range to make the long runs up and down the Pacific coast into Mexico or Alaska. So Arthur designed several pleasure craft for that organization in the 38 to 54 foot range. These were deep draft, full-displacement, diesel-powered vessels that were capable of prolonged Pacific passages in comfort and safety. Many were constructed of wood at the Lindwall yard in Santa Barbara.
End Quote:

Perhaps someone who owns a DeFever and cruises the Pacific, to Hawii and/or further afield, will let us know what they think of “their” DeFiver and how she performs at sea.
After all, Arthur DeFiver designed safe commercial Tuna boats for the American Pacific Tuna fleet, and by all accounts, American Tuna boats are great, safe seagoing boats.
As to the 15m DeFever I mentioned, not having enough diesel to Island hop the Pacific, 1400 US gallons = 5,299.6 liters! I feel 4,000 liters would be enough to Island hop, holding 1,299.6 liters in reserve. But...As Hawaii is 2390 miles from California, I could well be wrong about that Still...One could carry extra diesel in 44gal drums on deck

Just my 2c worth on a safe blue water powerboat

 

[MikeJohns]

Which Granaa ? I see the 80litre come in three flavors 450, 900 and 1030 HP all at 750 RPM same sized engines.

 

[Pierre R]

As to the 15m DeFever I mentioned, not having enough diesel to Island hop the Pacific, 1400 US gallons = 5,299.6 liters! I feel 4,000 liters would be enough to Island hop, holding 1,299.6 liters in reserve. But...As Hawaii is 2390 miles from California, I could well be wrong about that Still...One could carry extra diesel in 44gal drums on deck

Just my 2c worth on a safe blue water powerboat

Throttled way back to around 6.5 knots or so you can probably get to Hawaii and the weather along the southern route is generally good. But, How are you going to return?

 

[RHP]

RHP,
I thought I was harsh on the cat man but you don't hold back at all.
I was critical of the Cammenga like someone that said Farah Fawcet had 14 too many eye lashes. Just saying the stern wasn't quite right and showing a boat that had a good stern. The saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is misleading, evasive and simply not true. The ability to know beauty is to observe, consider, analyze and compare over a long period of time. To interact heavily in the company of those that DO know beauty is probably the fastest road to knowing it yourself. DNA may play a part in it but I think it is mostly learned. Form follows function but the resulting form may NOT be beautiful.
But it may perform it's function beautifully.
The definition of design is "An organized solution to a problem" There is nothing in the definition about beauty.

Good post Easy, some thought provoking comments.