The perfect Passagemaker? (style within this genre)

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by apex1, Aug 8, 2010.

?

Which one is your preferred style of long range cruiser?

  1. [img]http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/46218d1281296336t-perfect-passagemaker

    22 vote(s)
    24.4%
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    23 vote(s)
    25.6%
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    16 vote(s)
    17.8%
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    9 vote(s)
    10.0%
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    5 vote(s)
    5.6%
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    4 vote(s)
    4.4%
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    10 vote(s)
    11.1%
  8. [url=http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/perfect-passagemaker-style-within-genre-these-opti

    16 vote(s)
    17.8%
  9. [url=http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/perfect-passagemaker-style-within-genre-these-opti

    4 vote(s)
    4.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    I reread the post (original) and have made my decision.
    My vote is for the gentleman's yacht of the 60s.
    She is truly beautiful. It's also my opinion that yachts newer than the 60s are less and less beautiful. The average boat from the late 50s and all the 60s were generally speaking (or as a whole) better looking. The only other boat on the list that is beautiful is the "Tri-deck (classical style).
    1. North Sea Trawler.
    A very attractive, salty and sea kindly looking vessel. To be beautiful one needs graceful lines and a balance of mass. Visual balance is better achieved with the mass centered rather than at the extreme ends. The stern on the NST pictured is not one of grace. A handsome boat but not beautiful.
    2. Gentleman's Yacht (60s) Truly beautiful.
    3. Fantail Steamer style. I love these boats but with all the vertical windows, stanchions, ports and other repeated shapes and lines they take on a visual aura of a merry-go-round. With all that glass and burry me forefoot bow I'm not sure if we can really call them Passage Makers.
    4. Supply Vessel.
    A handsome vessel, cool looking, masculine looking, neat looking but nary a graceful line. I think we're looking for Collies, not bulldogs. The visual strength is almost exciting but not beautiful.
    5. Tri-.Deck (classical style)
    This is the only other vessel that is beautiful. A strong 2nd place. It lacks the level of grace and swan like quality the gentlemen's yacht has. Definitely a beautiful boat though.
    6. US Trawler. The Nordhavn pictured, from a standpoint of beauty is a bad example. Not described as HRP would by me but somewhat close. The Nordhavn 46 is a beautiful boat (except the stern) but all other Nordhavn's have next to no grace at all. Mass is out of balance (huge bow low stern(to a fault)). Lines are chopped up, flow nowhere and shapes of pieces of the boat are are even ugly. If the example was a Fleming or even an older Grand Banks I could have said more flattering things to say. Actually some Flemings could be a contender here.

    Respectfully
    Easy Rider
     
  2. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Here's another pic of the boat Easy posted a stern shot of, She was originally called Nisku, built by Philbrook's Boatyard in Sidney BC in 1970.

    Nisku.jpg

    And another of my own efforts which will have the range, again her styling is tied to the North Sea Trawler type. The Ocean 55' in steel.

    OC55ports2.jpg

    OC55ports4.jpg

    A DeFever design I've done a fair amount of work on, and cruised aboard. The 60' Island Eagle.

    underway_1600.jpg

    And some steel Romsdals from Norway

    Romsdal1.jpg
     
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  3. RHP
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    RHP Senior Member

    Congrats on the Ocean 55 Tad, very nice, but how usable is the raised aft deck at sea?
     
  4. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Usable? Not......usable at sea outside space was not in the SOR for this commission. If such a space was required I would build a flying bridge behind the pilothouse with direct access down into the PH.
     
  5. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Manie B Senior Member

    What a beauty

    balanced rudders - bow thrusters - adjustable stabilizer fins - twin screw

    what a ride, and for its size will be economical enough
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    that 55 looks great Tad
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    6F24TK Mike. (the 4th flavour) you know her from my "Trawler thread"
    [​IMG]

    That beast does 600hp at 600rpm, displacement is 81 liters, weight incl CPP, shaft, servogear, clutch is 8,7 tonnes.

    Definetively yes.
    Not only I do think so. There are several hundred couples out there cruising the world without crew.
    The vessels size is more or less limited by the workload on maintenance a couple can stand, and second, port handling. I therefore would say something around 30 meter is the max. size for two skilled people. (many Lowland and Moonen boats between 24 and 30 meter are operated by the owners couple only, as are most of the HatterasĀ“ses from 70 to 80ft)

    Regards
    Richard

    One interesting sidenote:
    we have already two votes for the "second proposal" but there was no second proposal by so far! (given the fact tha I decide which one is accepted as the second one) <mod note inserted: removed those two votes and set that option to 0>
     
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  8. MatthewDS
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Juneau, Alaska

    MatthewDS Senior Member

    Several comments, my personal preference would be the North Sea Trawler style yacht. Partly because I think they are beautiful, and partly because I like the option of that open deck space for storing tenders/4 wheelers/cargo. My hope is that when I retire, I can get a vessel like this, and use periodic cargo trips to suppliment my retirement income.

    Secondly, I spent many years growing up in and later working in Boat Harbors in Alaska. The originally posted 23-25 meters for two people and no crew is popular and common. I would say that any larger, you will need a crew, or at least friends, but that size, for two people, is perfect.

    Thirdly, regarding Tad's Ocean 55. I grew up on a Skookum 47 with an almost identical deck configuration. The raised aft deck was perfectly usable, and provided great headroom in the cabins below. I have attached a picture for comparison.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  9. MatthewDS
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Juneau, Alaska

    MatthewDS Senior Member

    Actually, in terms of looks, it's hard to beat the brutal functionality of this boat. At 65' it's a little smaller than Richard was looking for, but I would expect that if you added 10' in the middle, it would be just perfect. In fact, I think it's perfect now.
     

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  10. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Doesnt matter, breed of boat clearly is
    I tried to contribute, but you had a dummy spit and used words like drivel, junk and butt ugly and made it clear that only one form of vessel shall be discussed, not "all" perfect passagmakers, but only the ones that fit in your very small opinion of what one should be.

    And you dare to accuse me of wanting a fight. :rolleyes:

    I just want honest and open discussion, not blinkered , ill informed and one sided opinion.
     
  11. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    You right, Richard propose one version of his vision like you have one too. But it is not your thread, nor your vision we are talking about.
    The Richard's version is a monohull capable of great cruise with style and classic styling.
    We are working around these parameters.
    Why are you so mad about it?
    Richard do not want multihull, so what? You want it: well open your own thread and explain your vision.
    Be nice and participate with what you know, not with preconception.
    Multihull are great, not here, that simple.
    Read attentively the thread and I am sure you will agree to calm down and come back with good post.
    Daniel
     
  12. Brian@BNE
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Location: Brisbane, Australia

    Brian@BNE Senior Member

    Impact of layout on styling

    I've been looking at used 22-24m boats online, thinking perhaps I can buy one for the same cost as a new 18m build. Ok, most will need some updating......so leave 30-40% of budget for that?

    One thing that leaps out of reviewing used boats this length is the layout, and its impact on styling. Most have Owner/guest staterooms aft, engines in middle and captain/crew cabins and lounge forward.

    I have no interest in having hired help on board. It was pleasing to note many comments that two skilled people can handle the size.

    What might work well is to strip-out the forward 'crew' areas to create one large lower deck salon, that functions as a teenage chill-zone. Fit it with large TV, DVD and games consoles and teenagers are occupied forever, never bored! And adults get to be a bit isolated from the noise! A few pullman berths and some rolled up foam mattresses for the floor and that's it. Teenage heaven. And it would also work as kid+partner+grandkids cabin

    The alternative might be Tad's PL series with engine room aft, as this provides a contiguous accommodation area. But I'm coming around to liking the pilothouse being centered above the engine room. With a Grenaa in there (and the height it requires), the pilothouse will get a very nicely elevated position! That will create a few steps down to galley/main salon. Being able to keep the helm position isolated from the bright lights of the galley will work well for the nights on the move.

    So all this leads back to 'classic' styling as being an optimum for space utilization. Perhaps the 'tugs' from Knotty and Daniels early posts? Eric Sponberg's Molokai Strait 75 is great in many ways, but I think has one deck too many (its advertised as a 4 deck boat...). Like Will Allison, I don't want a style that looks like it might fall over, even though I'm sure Eric has designed it quite properly in that regard. Leave out the hired help and leave out one deck?

    Another conclusion from browsing the online 'for sale' is that there is surprisingly little out there that meets Richard's #1 post SOR, which I have to admit is something I would aspire to own.
     
  13. BillAU
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    BillAU Junior Member

    Sorry your honour...It was a miss-understanding, cross me hart your honour, I won't do it again :rolleyes: :( :p
     
  14. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: nation of Ohio

    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Apex,

    Looking at the boats in original post, the comparison will be made to the Bolger "Illinois" and "Ellemaid" according to just styling.

    Upscaling the Illinios to 25m it would look petite with pretty slim lines and beatifully proportioned.

    The ellemaid has good lines just to tall.

    Original boats are bubblebutts. You can caress them while youre at the marina but they would eat fuel like a pig when taking out. Just like a wife thats becomes a little heavy youre still fond of them, but being a young man they would not be a first choice.
     

  15. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Having 72' boat, handling for 2 people is possible if you are very organized and practiced. The biggest problem is finding suitable marinas at reasonable prices. If I had to do it again I would have stayed in the 50 foot range for that reason. The number of marinas goes up five-fold.
     
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