OXE Diesel Outboard Experiences?

[BlueBell]

One downside of outboard: I would need a separate auxiliary engine, for hydraulics and domestics but that won't be a biggie. Probably a little Kohler genset and an electric powerpack for the hydraulics would do the job.

Or just go straight electric with the genset, and skip the hydraulics...?

 

[comfisherman]

Surface drives didn't last long up here either. Looked up some of your mussle farm boats and they look like cousins to some of the rigs we run. The theory here was the difference in light/loaded weight differences were really hard on prop loading and decreased lifespan rather dramatically. Not sure if there was actual creedance to it or not, they were certainly short lived in workboat application. Don't thing any of the dozens installed a decade ago survived more than a few years until they were retrofit to something else.

 

[BlueBell]

The theory here was the difference in light/loaded weight differences were really hard on prop loading and decreased lifespan rather dramatically.

I drove an aluminum, 42-passenger, twin diesel tour boat with Arneson styled drives (custom made).
They worked fine loaded or unloaded a difference of ~3300 kg,
but they were high maintenance.
A lot preventative in an effort to avoid downtime ($$$).
But I can see them getting hung up in the farming-gear for sure.

Outboards aren't going to work either, still props! (and heavy, and expensive!)

The duty cycle would be 30% at cruise speed and 70% at slow speed.

That's different.

You need two turbo diesels and two jets.
But you can't stop rope getting sucked in and clogging your impeller(s).
And you can't fortify the intake screen, you won't get 25 knots!

Does the weather allow for that, 25 knots all the time?

Turbo mode for the 30% cruising, and non-turbo mode for the 70% slow speed.
Smaller engines, less underloading for 70% of their lives.
Higher turbo wear for only 30% of their lives.
And you get your 25 knots, with less weight.

Not cheap, but that's the cost of doing business.
Capt's gotta keep lines and rope out of the intakes.
Clearing clogged impellers by hand sucks while underway.
Took me 10-15 minutes to clear a Hamilton 42 of bull kelp... once,
I never did it again.

 

[comfisherman]

Can't speak for mussle farming but having used outboards and jets it kelp and seaweed intensive areas with heavy nets, they can work but it's not flawless. We don't have a stomp grate on our current jets, just a reverse gear to back flush when we play high horsepower salid shooter. Kelp really does shut down jets but it clears easily, it's the fine grasses that shut it down ans make it a pain to clear. Especially if you have some gravel in the grate. We've yarded our work skiff on deck to clear as we couldn't unclog them in the water. Trade off is as long as the lines or webbing is tight or even a little taught they usually slide right on by. We've done some absurd boat/net interactions over the years only issues usually are floating loose line or loose bag webbed.

Downside of outboards in boats that pack weight intensive fisheries and aquaculture can be the struggle with trim on light and loaded. If draft can remain static or minimal enough, it's pretty easy to tilt an outboard up to clear a prop especially with a good jack plate and a well bracket.

I get the desire to avoid inboards. Tier 3 and 4 drove cost up and lifespan down. Nobody is getting the hrs out of the modern mains that they used to, that combined with the added price bump makes bolt on/off options look better and better.

 

[BlueBell]

Kelp really does shut down jets but it clears easily

Perhaps if you have a reverse gear, we didn't and it clogged up the impeller completely.
Had to open it up and clear it by hand, yuk, what a mess.

 

[BlueBell]

IronPrice,

You know OXE makes a jet drive outboard.

 

[DogCavalry]

Surface drives didn't last long up here either. Looked up some of your mussle farm boats and they look like cousins to some of the rigs we run. The theory here was the difference in light/loaded weight differences were really hard on prop loading and decreased lifespan rather dramatically. Not sure if there was actual creedance to it or not, they were certainly short lived in workboat application. Don't thing any of the dozens installed a decade ago survived more than a few years until they were retrofit to something else.

What type of surface drives? When the phrase is used, most folks think of Arneson drives, because Arneson paid a lot of money to make it that way. But they are fragile; how could they not be?

 

[comfisherman]

Arneson drives, maybe a dozen showed up about 20 years ago. We're initially popular on some herring sleds. That's what made me think they struggled with weight variability. The one I knew packed 22 tons of herring and had a curb weight of 9.5 tons light. Basically a big aluminum tub, with and engine. One or two pws bowpickers and a couple bay boats. Remember seeing a few around 2000, don't think any were still rocking arneson drives by 05.

Admittedly we're rather difficult on boats, talking to a jet manufacturer at Pacific Marine Expo a few years back. He politely pointed out that were harder on Jets than the river running guys. So we're kind of the book end on the far side of hard-on equipment. In my defense it's been a decade since I've knocked a whole fluke off a prop....

 

[DogCavalry]

A whole decade! You're slowing down. Levi drives appear to be built like tanks, with a lot less structural vulnerability, but I think they are done for.

 

[comfisherman]

Think it was 13, 2$ a pound sockeye school teasing me behind the spit. Bouncing around the gravel and found a big rock probably pulled out by ice(theorizing don't actually know fit sure). Hit so hard it killed the main, shimmied pretty fierce over 900 rpm. Went dry on the flat figured I'd either pound a rolled fluke out or maybe swap out my spare. Figured something was up when my guys were under the tunnel laughing... we were only rocking 3.25 prop bladed.


Back on subject on the outboard, my concern would be the long term viability of the oxe. I can think of 1 I've seen on my coastline and can think of only four more that are on other boats (both small coastal dungy boats). Last year we had the opportunity to visit Florida, saw miles and miles of suzuki 300s yamaha 300s and even a fair whack if mercury(not something wildy adopted on the west coast.) But no oxe outboards.

Anecdotally the seven marine big blocks were far more widely adopted in every locale than the oxe, and those were orphaned fast. Indisputable win for diesel is ease of fuel tankage, after that it's torque (negated by a shallower gear leg ratio), then fuel economy and maybe price. Question I'd even at 2$ a liter how much more fuel efficient does it need to be over an ap 300 to warrant just under 40k price difference. It would have to last a long long time.

I'm sympathetic to the idea, recently got quotes for some suzukis for a small backup work boat we have. I'd love s better mouse trap than we've had for near 20 years. We did the oxe math and it would have to live maintenence free for double the life of the suzuki 300 and burn an average of 30% less fuel at a fuel price disparity higher than last year to pencil the 38,700$ usd rigged price difference. Never mind sourcing repair and wear parts for the next 5-8 years (lifespan of a hard worked 300) in a single digit sales ob.
My finger are crossed that it's idea I'd gulped up by a company capable of scaling production enough to get cost down to where it would pencil. 30-40% more than a gass equivalent and I'm all ears.. more than doubke... tough sell.

 

[DogCavalry]

I was quoted at least double. The only reason I'd consider it is that Transport Canada doesn't like gasoline engines and passengers.

 

[comfisherman]

Dunno about the current state of the Canadian peso, but the single prop suzuki was a few dollars under 25 us for a commercial use (slightly less total cost than private use as the warranty goes from 5 and 2, to a single calendar year commercial) duo was few usd over 27. Base engine prices haven't gone up a ton but these new panels harnesses and drive stations are crazy money. 20 years ago they came with a basic gauge and the controls and cables were 300 bucks. Now it's almost 5k for a panel and shifter and gauge cluster.

Oxe was told 63.7k locally rigged and ready to rock. Didn't try lower 48 places but they usually always beat that price so maybe under 60.

Double and change, for a dealer network that doesn't exist and a parts line that won't have anyone else. If it swung a big prop with lots of torque I'd probably swallow hard and go for it. But a turbo light displacement diesel doesn't usually last a lot longer than a proven na gas block. Modern emissions standards have been the death of long lived diesels. Now we're down to just fuel economy, not a trivial issue for sure... but the price difference can buy an inordinate amount of fuel.


Honestly I think the diesel ob segment is viable predominately for dod applications where gasoline isn't useful or practical. Namely marine and seal go fast boats, needing modern ob performance with a stable fuel.

Sadly it means unless you have a reserve bank these aren't as viable.

 

[DogCavalry]

Yes. I tend to agree

 

[BlueBell]

A couple of 200's would help weigh down SERENITY's rear end!
Too bad a single 300 wouldn't work...

 

[IronPrice]

Or just go straight electric with the genset, and skip the hydraulics...?

Electric winches/rams would need to be AC. They'd be exposed to the elements. Too much risk. Almost all our deck gear is hydraulic, it just works