Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Doug Lord
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Good video: https://www.facebook.com/455330334500677/videos/1353675361332832/

Watch the guy in the white boat with a bowsprit mounted wand. He pitches up, the wand swings all the way forward-and the boats dives!

Doug - you are misinterpreting what you are seeing again in order to attempt to support your erroneous understanding of what is happening here. This has been explained to you several times on both this site and SA by moth sailors and non-moth sailors alike.

The rapid drop is due to ventilation of the main foil, not simply the action of the flap. You can see the ride height is very high and the foil appears to run into a trough. Further evidence is available within this same video where at 2:06 and 2:10 there are instances of wands swinging forward to the limit of their travel and yet, somehow the boats don't crash dive as you would suggest they should. Why? Because the main foil is still comfortably submerged and a nanosecond of flap up (if it even moved that far) isn't enough to cause a crash drop.

Can you try to move forward in your understanding based on a clear set of evidence in front of you instead of just seeking out cherrypicked evidence that supports your entrenched but erroneous position?
 
Moth on Foils!

I merely accurately recounted what I saw in the video of that boat. I watched it again- no way was the foil in a trough. Interesting that the first two crashes were both boats with bowsprits......Tough conditions and the bowsprits ,generally, seemed to do well.
 
I merely accurately recounted what I saw in the video of that boat.

Doug, your attempt to link the two events is obvious. You cherry picked a short segment of footage that you thought supported your previous erroneous assertions.

If you were actually interested in building an understanding of what is going on you would have questioned why there are plenty of instances (including at least two others in that video) of wands flicking forward that do not cause a crash.
 
Moth on Foils!

You're reading into what I said what you want to....and that has nothing to do with the facts of my observation. I did NOT comment on "why" anything happened-just that it did happen.
 
Moth on Foils!

From past discussion-to be very clear:

A friend who owns a MachII has helped me understand that there is a wide range of setup for the wand/ flap relationship and so I was wrong in saying-absolutely- that when the wand kicks forward it causes a crash. As I understand it ,it is a matter of set-up and the wand could be set up to have that kind of authority but it is impossible to tell for sure by looking at it. However, that explains the wand springing forward with little or no response from the boat.
So I apologize for the incorrect information.
However, what is still clear is that a wand system still requires the ability to reduce or eliminate lift in order to control altitude. And on multihull foilers the flap movement will likely be much greater than on the Moth in order to facilitate large amounts of downforce from the windward foil.

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I was researching a question on foil drag so reread Bill Beaver's excellent paper (see below) on the Moth. I found something directly related to the discussion here earlier(see red above):

Although not intuitive, from a sailing perspective flap up
(shedding lift) is more important than flap down (adding
lift) because of the dire nature of the crash that comes from
the inability to shed lift adequately.
 

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