Scow Moth Designs

[Moggy]

I think a Scow Moth is more stable than a lightwheight Skiff Moth, so better for that what I want. ... sailing, not swimming.

Not really, the scows where reasonably similar to the skiffs of their day. They will both chuck you in the water pretty quickly. That is why I suggested a classic skiff, they are bigger, more room, more civilised.

 

[JRD]

Michel

I like your idea. Putting aside the normal discussion and debate these threads develop, I think building a man size scow for flat water blasting is a great idea. No you don't get fleet racing, but developing your own ideas is great fun so long as your wife does not find out how much it costs.

Do you have any existing rigging and sail you can transplant or will you start it all from new? If you are trying to keep the cost down, something like an old 29er mast and sail with a recut might be a good starting point. My one off single hander has 12' skiff mainsail recut with a square top, that would be 20 years old now and it works just fine.

It should be relatively easy to scale up to your new displacement without losing any of the characteristics you are hoping for. The construction looks very intricate like a model aeroplane. For me the big question would be, do I want a simple build that will be finished and sailing by summer or do I want to take the time for the lightest and most complex method?


Jeff

 

[luckystrike]

Michel

I like your idea. Putting aside the normal discussion and debate these threads develop, I think building a man size scow for flat water blasting is a great idea. No you don't get fleet racing, but developing your own ideas is great fun so long as your wife does not find out how much it costs.

Do you have any existing rigging and sail you can transplant or will you start it all from new? If you are trying to keep the cost down, something like an old 29er mast and sail with a recut might be a good starting point. My one off single hander has 12' skiff mainsail recut with a square top, that would be 20 years old now and it works just fine.

It should be relatively easy to scale up to your new displacement without losing any of the characteristics you are hoping for. The construction looks very intricate like a model aeroplane. For me the big question would be, do I want a simple build that will be finished and sailing by summer or do I want to take the time for the lightest and most complex method?


Jeff

Hi Jeff,

No, the boat must not be ready for next spring. I expect to have boat building fun for two winters and leisure time in between. I definetly want the model-airplane stuff. I like modeling in the winter mounths or sometimes in the evenings, so the fat moth will be my next project in this theme. Most of the labour intensive parts like bulkheads or one half of the strongback are small enough that I can make them at home in my tinker room.
For a quick build I would choose the carbon sandwich construction of the "perverted Moth" (google for further information).

I will have to buy the plywood, but timber and epoxy comes from the stock of my workshop. Best oppertunity to use all the little pieces of wood to big to throw away but to small for boatbuilding.

I have a mainsheet and a boom, a lot of turning blocks and rope in stock. I like the idea of recycling. The hiking-racks will be made from old windsurfer masts.
A big windsurfers rig or buying a moth or skiff sail second hand are ideas for the rigging. Reinforcing a windsurfers mast with some layers of carbon to make it stiffer and to get the proper curve is no big problem, have done this before with a Europe dinghy. In the worst case I will build a wooden wingmast and set a cut down catamaran mainsail on it..
Time and ebay will tell....

Best Regards, Michel

 

[luckystrike]

Not really, the scows where reasonably similar to the skiffs of their day. They will both chuck you in the water pretty quickly. That is why I suggested a classic skiff, they are bigger, more room, more civilised.

Hi Moggy
Oh come on, a 1.2m wide surfplank must be a little more stable than a 0.4m wide catamaran hull. Thats simple physics.

But in general you are right and your warnings are heard. The Scow Moth Iam thinking of will be not easy to sail. But I want this challenge. I do "civilised" sailing and racing with crew training, 5mm sail trimming and all the racing rules every week. What Iam missing is the anarchy fun beyond hullspeed.

I think the whole project is worth to be done, even if i can not handle the boat in the end, the boatbuilding will be fun and the things learned will be valuable.

Best Regards, Michel

 

[Steve Clark]

https://www.facebook.com/fulcrumspeedworks
If you are willing to look beyond the Moth.
ICs are longer and carry weight better than a Moth. Faster too.
One of the best rides for simple pleasure to sail.
There is a German class as well with annual regattas etc.
SHC

 

[Moggy]

Hi Moggy
Oh come on, a 1.2m wide surfplank must be a little more stable than a 0.4m wide catamaran hull. Thats simple physics.

... "of their day" .... the skiffs where not 40cm wide when the scows where in with a chance.

But in general you are right and your warnings are heard. The Scow Moth Iam thinking of will be not easy to sail. But I want this challenge. I do "civilised" sailing and racing with crew training, 5mm sail trimming and all the racing rules every week. What Iam missing is the anarchy fun beyond hullspeed.

The main issue will be hull depth, you need to scale up one dimension to get what you want/need and that will alter the boat significantly. I built a few, they are light as well as shallow. Look maybe just staying true to a good hull design and extending the mast and using a carbon one to slightly offset the extra height will do it. Chuck 10kg of lead onto the end of the centre board and maybe you have a civil Moth?

Trust me it will chuck you in the water as fast as most 11' dinghies and over the nose on the odd occasion. Many a time I have listened to my foredeck groan as the water headed toward the mast.

 

[sawmaster]

I know this is an old post but I've been out of pocket for awhile and just read it.I loved the video of the "japanese" moth-impressed with how the little scow could scoot--but one element always seem to be missing from the plans Ive seen. The Hiking rack.It appears to be lightweight aluminium-a hard to fabricate and expensive material for a homebuilder like myself.The boxy shape and flat bottom of the scow should be fairly easy to duplicate but I dont have welding and bending facilities/experience.Does anyone produce tubular aluminium hiking racks as a bolt-on accessory?I saw a video of racks made for a laser but he wanted more for the racks I was spending on the hull.Does anyone have a suggestion or plans for the racks?

 

[Skyak]

I know this is an old post but I've been out of pocket for awhile and just read it.I loved the video of the "japanese" moth-impressed with how the little scow could scoot--but one element always seem to be missing from the plans Ive seen. The Hiking rack.It appears to be lightweight aluminium-a hard to fabricate and expensive material for a homebuilder like myself.The boxy shape and flat bottom of the scow should be fairly easy to duplicate but I dont have welding and bending facilities/experience.Does anyone produce tubular aluminium hiking racks as a bolt-on accessory?I saw a video of racks made for a laser but he wanted more for the racks I was spending on the hull.Does anyone have a suggestion or plans for the racks?

Why not wood? Or you could cap aluminum tubes with PVC pipe across the top.

 

[Doug Lord]

Foiling Scow Moths(s)

See two pictures of one foiling Scow Moth here:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/moth-foils-35-9-knots-41-29-mph-11209-98.html#post716748 post1458

 

[luckystrike]

I know this is an old post but I've been out of pocket for awhile and just read it.I loved the video of the "japanese" moth-impressed with how the little scow could scoot--but one element always seem to be missing from the plans Ive seen. The Hiking rack.It appears to be lightweight aluminium-a hard to fabricate and expensive material for a homebuilder like myself.The boxy shape and flat bottom of the scow should be fairly easy to duplicate but I dont have welding and bending facilities/experience.Does anyone produce tubular aluminium hiking racks as a bolt-on accessory?I saw a video of racks made for a laser but he wanted more for the racks I was spending on the hull.Does anyone have a suggestion or plans for the racks?

The hiking racks should be no big problem. In my eyes a couple of broken windsurfermasts could be recycled to be used as the tubes for the rack. Simply connected with some laminating. Aluminium tubes coud be used also, the possible bending and welding ist no big job, so in emergency you can pay somebody to do it and who has the equipment, without expanding your budged too much. Aluminium is easy to saw, drill and shape.

Best Regards, Michel

 

[gggGuest]

The racks aren't very simple because anchorage to the hull also needs to be arranged. Easy enough with carbon racks/foam sandwich hull, but quite possible to get it wrong with wood/aluminium. Wood wings were always rather heavy which is why they were soon abandoned. Of course they are not compulsory: earlier boats didn't have them.

 

[waikikin]

Just for interest, this popped up on gumtree....

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/newport/sail-boats/scow-moth-1967-unsailed-/1064692386

Jeff

 

[Moggy]

I built one of them.

 

[Moggy]

See two pictures of one foiling Scow Moth here:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/moth-foils-35-9-knots-41-29-mph-11209-98.html#post716748 post1458

LOL, they look odd! More stable?

 

[luckystrike]

The racks aren't very simple because anchorage to the hull also needs to be arranged. Easy enough with carbon racks/foam sandwich hull, but quite possible to get it wrong with wood/aluminium. Wood wings were always rather heavy which is why they were soon abandoned. Of course they are not compulsory: earlier boats didn't have them.

yes of course you have to have reinforced anchor spots and bulkheads inside the hull to accept the racks. Normally the racks are lashed to the hull with rope, the japanese sailor has a quick release system using carbon partners and bolts.