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Affordable seaworthy cruiser
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larry larisky
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would you be kind to implement that quote, or leave jesus out of your posts.
until now you ask and answer to yourself, with a mix of bible and personal thought.
don't blaspheme
what would be an adequate bilge pump?
SamSam
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I think a towel would work well. Maybe a Shamwow.
goodwilltoall
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Not blaspheming just trying to offset the mockers who are the real blasphemers.
Theres much talk of it will not work, and its a bad design. As asked many times before, give reasons for your statements. Lake Erie can be rough with the choppy waves, but how do you calculate it will not be able to handle them.
Post 34, the design is proven being able to go through the deluge, so jubilee will be a smaller boat with same proportions. When there's a chance, the side by side comparisons will be shown to give an example of the 2083cf ratio.
Understand that some boats are built first with accomodation requirements (start inside out) but how can that always be the right way to start? Jubilee is comparable to a modern 35' and the interior layout is just what will work. Extra room is desirable but not able to be done (you are limited to the 2083cf.
Post 35, Eric you are on to something, the dutch barges might have had too much length and very bluff bows and sterns. But Bolger used the Thames river barge model to design Romp, Ataaxia, Barn Owl and several others. Barn Owl had the right porportions with beam and hull height but was just a 4 to 1 lenghth.
With a man that had 700 designs and saying Romp was the most seaworthy design of all speaks volumes and should be looked into as to why this would be the case.
Post 36, the reason for saying trimasted was to lower center of gravity, just a thought. Even the heresshoff Marco Polo had three masts and hereshoff said it was one of his best designs. Also the masts dont have to be fresh cut trees and can be box masts as shown in the drawing. It was an idea floated around, and to just shoot it down when its been done for centuries shows ignorance.
This ideas are thrown around to see if theres more efficient methods to keep overall costs low. So if you see an improvement that can be made point it out. With the mistakes do the same and explain why it wont work and what would be the solution.
Peace,
Theres much talk of it will not work, and its a bad design. As asked many times before, give reasons for your statements. Lake Erie can be rough with the choppy waves, but how do you calculate it will not be able to handle them.
Post 34, the design is proven being able to go through the deluge, so jubilee will be a smaller boat with same proportions. When there's a chance, the side by side comparisons will be shown to give an example of the 2083cf ratio.
Understand that some boats are built first with accomodation requirements (start inside out) but how can that always be the right way to start? Jubilee is comparable to a modern 35' and the interior layout is just what will work. Extra room is desirable but not able to be done (you are limited to the 2083cf.
Post 35, Eric you are on to something, the dutch barges might have had too much length and very bluff bows and sterns. But Bolger used the Thames river barge model to design Romp, Ataaxia, Barn Owl and several others. Barn Owl had the right porportions with beam and hull height but was just a 4 to 1 lenghth.
With a man that had 700 designs and saying Romp was the most seaworthy design of all speaks volumes and should be looked into as to why this would be the case.
Post 36, the reason for saying trimasted was to lower center of gravity, just a thought. Even the heresshoff Marco Polo had three masts and hereshoff said it was one of his best designs. Also the masts dont have to be fresh cut trees and can be box masts as shown in the drawing. It was an idea floated around, and to just shoot it down when its been done for centuries shows ignorance.
This ideas are thrown around to see if theres more efficient methods to keep overall costs low. So if you see an improvement that can be made point it out. With the mistakes do the same and explain why it wont work and what would be the solution.
Peace,
frank smith
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There are all kinds of ways to keep cost down , and Mr Bolger spent a great deal of time figuring that stuff out . Do you think you are smarter than him?
Why are you interested in reinventing the wheel?, When up to this point you have not shone that you have any idea what you want to accomplish.
It is not good enough to look at a pile of cheap plywood and say it can be a boat. Do you have god to design it for you? does he speak to you at night, and tell you of the end of the world?
This brings another interesting point. I have a log raft made of 6 logs. The total year rings on those logs adds to 367.
Are there other boast that have total year rings of 367 - any pros or cons on those designs we could compare. Discuss.
Goodwilltoall what you have to understand first is that seaworthiness is also a subjective term. You can calculate all you want but seaworthiness is more than calculations. This is the trouble many on these forums run into when letting a computer do all the work.
Seaworthiness is about a boat, the conditions and the pysical and metal state of the crew. Seaworthiness is a system not a characteristic asigned to a boat.
I don't have the stability calculations in front of me as your design at this stage has no real lines and weights as to what it will be. What I can ascertain is general characterisitcs of your design. She has a shallow draft and flat bottom with no keel. She will tend to follow the contour of the waves in beam on seas and also steer like a pig. 2'-4' waves in Lake Erie have steep faces and very short wavelengths on the order of 2-3 sec. Your boat will probably match the wavelengths on many days in lake Erie and you will roll a good 40 degrees either way and with no bouyancy in the ends, probably end up upside down.
Now for the second part of seaworthiness. If you are throwing up or injured because of the violent motion it does no good if the boat is takeing the beating. You are not and a part of the seaworthiness system has broken down.
I have schetched up all sorts of neat very efficient designs but I really think I could not hack the motion that many of them would deliver in the conditions I designed them for.
Your portions of the ark could be the same but a much bigger boat takes a much bigger wave pure and simple and there is no way around that when scaling.
Another thing, how do you know what the lines were really like on the Ark?
Cubes is fine for guess work and rough comparisons but really falls short as a real design tool.
Seaworthiness is about a boat, the conditions and the pysical and metal state of the crew. Seaworthiness is a system not a characteristic asigned to a boat.
I don't have the stability calculations in front of me as your design at this stage has no real lines and weights as to what it will be. What I can ascertain is general characterisitcs of your design. She has a shallow draft and flat bottom with no keel. She will tend to follow the contour of the waves in beam on seas and also steer like a pig. 2'-4' waves in Lake Erie have steep faces and very short wavelengths on the order of 2-3 sec. Your boat will probably match the wavelengths on many days in lake Erie and you will roll a good 40 degrees either way and with no bouyancy in the ends, probably end up upside down.
Now for the second part of seaworthiness. If you are throwing up or injured because of the violent motion it does no good if the boat is takeing the beating. You are not and a part of the seaworthiness system has broken down.
I have schetched up all sorts of neat very efficient designs but I really think I could not hack the motion that many of them would deliver in the conditions I designed them for.
Your portions of the ark could be the same but a much bigger boat takes a much bigger wave pure and simple and there is no way around that when scaling.
Another thing, how do you know what the lines were really like on the Ark?
Cubes is fine for guess work and rough comparisons but really falls short as a real design tool.
Eric Odle
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It might help the readers of this thread to consider that Noah's peers also ridiculed and mocked his efforts. While I doubt Mr. Goodwilltoall believes another flood is coming, you may have noticed by now that he is completely undeterred by any of the naysayers here. This is difficult for rational people to understand if they aren't true believers in whatever faith they choose.
True belief is absolute faith in something that you can't see. It is reality, and what the rational person sees is not real. In fact, reason in this arena has severe limits... It's hard to convey this with enough emphasis, that Mr. Goodwilltoall is absolutely certain that Noah accomplished his feat, and that it is certainly possible to do so on a smaller scale.
As experts looking rationally at the matter, it's probably best to stay in the realm of possibility and avoid the criticism if possible. It can be done, but how can he accomplish it safely? You won't discourage that kind of determination, he already knows it is possible, he just needs help with the how part. IMHO, of course.
True belief is absolute faith in something that you can't see. It is reality, and what the rational person sees is not real. In fact, reason in this arena has severe limits... It's hard to convey this with enough emphasis, that Mr. Goodwilltoall is absolutely certain that Noah accomplished his feat, and that it is certainly possible to do so on a smaller scale.
As experts looking rationally at the matter, it's probably best to stay in the realm of possibility and avoid the criticism if possible. It can be done, but how can he accomplish it safely? You won't discourage that kind of determination, he already knows it is possible, he just needs help with the how part. IMHO, of course.
frank smith
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Farting around this place wont get you very far , If you haven't noticed this is
a boat design forum.
Eric Odle
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Yep, I noticed it, that's why I'm here - to research and discuss boat designs. I'm just trying to shed a little light on where I think this guy is coming from. Most rational people have a hard time getting it.
DennisRB
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Are you implying that being rational is somehow detrimental? This world would be a far better place without irrationality.
Also. I had an argument about the shape of the supposed ark with another bible believer. Since the ark dimensions were only given as 3 dimensions this guy insisted that the ark was a rectangular box. So Mr Goodwill. How do you know the ark was not a rectangular box? You only list the 3 dimensions too. If you want to take scriptures so literally I think your ark should be a box. What is the point of going half way between a box and a curved hull shape? You are obviously just making these details up as you go along. Given the lack of real design parameters on the supposed ark its becomes ridiculous that you think you can just randomly fill in the design gaps to make a seaworthy boat by twisting what is written in the scriptures to suit yourself.
Reinterpretation of what is written in scriptures to suit your own agendas? Well I have never heard of that happening before.
Eric Odle
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No I'm definitely for rational behavior when it comes to boats. The USCG has enough irrational people to deal with already, and we see too many of them in my line of work even in Alaska. This place has a steady diet of irrational people who come here to die.
If you can try to see this from Mr. Goodwilltoall's perspective, the more he is ridiculed, the more he is like Noah. Noah was undeterred.
If you can try to see this from Mr. Goodwilltoall's perspective, the more he is ridiculed, the more he is like Noah. Noah was undeterred.
hoytedow
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From the ballad, The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald:
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd put fifteen more miles behind her.
They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered."
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd put fifteen more miles behind her.
They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered."
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