Large sharpie for the Adriatic

[Igor]

OK, so you already have a berth arranged for a 10 or 11 metre long vessel?
Would it cost less if you had a shorter, fatter sharpie with the same amount of accommodation, while still having good sailing ability?

There would be a small difference in berth price in those boat lengths, say 26 vs 35ft boat, my berth can take vessels up to 11m.

 

[DVV]

I read the book and I felt in love with sharpies too. For a while I dreamed of building a - much smaller - one.
I know well Croatia and I think coronati islands in particular would be a nice place for a sharpie.
You are considering a very big one, iyou could have a check to Chis Morejon blog for some new ideas
(Chris Morejohn http://chrismorejohn.blogspot.com/?m=1)

Keep un posted

 

[luckystrike]

Hello Igor,
I have a little experience sailing between the islands (Brac Hvar Bol) and along mainland between Split and Dubrovnik. If the weather gets rough the waves a to high and short to be compatible with the very low hulls of the Carolina- or New Haven Sharpies. The will sail like submarines in those conditiones. Better choose a Ohio Sharpie or the Egret if you want to stay with Reul Parker. Or one of his other designs with more Freeboard.

I also recomend the Nis Boats and the plans are available alone, but NIS Boats are eating plywood for breakfast, so cost will be high and construction will be not easy or fast.

Be aware that the build of a 35 footer is a very large project even if the building system seems to be simple. Especially if you compare length with accomodation or cockpit space. A shorter boat with more usual relations between length and freeboard will serve you better.

Do you have enough money or will your build be a low budget project?

Reul Parker has a website where many more designs are on display.

Have fun, Michel

 

[Igor]

Hello Igor,
I have a little experience sailing between the islands (Brac Hvar Bol) and along mainland between Split and Dubrovnik. If the weather gets rough the waves a to high and short to be compatible with the very low hulls of the Carolina- or New Haven Sharpies. The will sail like submarines in those conditiones. Better choose a Ohio Sharpie or the Egret if you want to stay with Reul Parker. Or one of his other designs with more Freeboard.

I also recomend the Nis Boats and the plans are available alone, but NIS Boats are eating plywood for breakfast, so cost will be high and construction will be not easy or fast.

Be aware that the build of a 35 footer is a very large project even if the building system seems to be simple. Especially if you compare length with accomodation or cockpit space. A shorter boat with more usual relations between length and freeboard will serve you better.

Do you have enough money or will your build be a low budget project?

Reul Parker has a website where many more designs are on display.

Have fun, Michel

Hello Michel!

I live on the mainland across island Hvar, you have been sailing precisely in my area! I am very glad that someone expirienced with our local conditions spoke up.

That was precisely what i was afraid of, low freeboard causing decks being awash and basicaly turning the low boat in submarine in short steep chop.

I took a long look at Egret, even though the boat is beautiful and legendary for its seakeeping feats with plenty od rocker, higher freeboard, lot of flare and being double ended the general consensus is that the type is not great performer compared to other sharpies so I steered away, maybe I will have one more look.

I have planned to build the New Haven workboat-like, with very basic accomodations and without shiny bits.

You are right about amount of plywood needed to build NIS boat, I was amazed by the number od sheets needed to build even the small 23ft model!
Thank you for very informative answer!

All best, Igor

 

[DVV]

If you can handle the look and find the plans, Bolger Advanced Sharpies are to be considered.
Very simple construction - given the dimensions - essential, very high freeboard.
I'm afraid that short Adriatic seas would be sometimes challenging for a flat bottomed boat. That is something you have to live with I think

 

[Milehog]

My too short time on the Dalmation Coast was in April, the wind and chop were indeed lively. I had forgotten about that.
There was a cute pilothouse displacement boat at the boat show in Split that I really liked but looking at that < 7-meter boat and the water made me go hmmm.

 

[Igor]

If you can handle the look and find the plans, Bolger Advanced Sharpies are to be considered.
Very simple construction - given the dimensions - essential, very high freeboard.
I'm afraid that short Adriatic seas would be sometimes challenging for a flat bottomed boat. That is something you have to live with I think

Those Bolger's sharpies are an acquired taste, as the rest of his boats though. Some of the bigger ones have crossed the oceans, they have useable interior space and self righting abilty in most cases but the looks department goes through the window.
Flat bottom definitely is not the best choice for the conditions usually found in Adriatic, talking about Parker's boats something along the lines of 28ft Swansea pilot schooner would be ideal but I am aware that I haven't got the chops to build that one, no way.

 

[Igor]

My too short time on the Dalmation Coast was in April, the wind and chop were indeed lively. I had forgotten about that.
There was a cute pilothouse displacement boat at the boat show in Split that I really liked but looking at that < 7-meter boat and the water made me go hmmm.

Sub 7m displacement boats are quite popular among fishermen and weekend warriors along the coast, you can actually have a very good time per litre of diesel in such boats and survive everything but the worst conditions when noone goes to the sea anyway.

Two months ago 36ft hi-spec racer/cruiser Canarino Furioso 2 lost its one tonn bulb keel and capsized off the coast od Pula in moderate conditions, luckily the crew survived. The boat was meticulously maintained by his owner who is legend in Croatian sailing circles.

Guess all boats are compromises..

 

[luckystrike]

I took a long look at Egret, even though the boat is beautiful and legendary for its seakeeping feats with plenty od rocker, higher freeboard, lot of flare and being double ended the general consensus is that the type is not great performer compared to other sharpies so I steered away, maybe I will have one more look.

You are right about amount of plywood needed to build NIS boat, I was amazed by the number od sheets needed to build even the small 23ft model!
Thank you for very informative answer!

Hello Igor,

well, I believe that the bad performance of the Egret belongs to the wooden boat magazine plans only. R. Parker means that their version is historically more correct and sacryfises speed in favour for seaworthiness to cope with the difficult conditionbes at the Florida Coast (running the inlets and sandbars, Gulf Stream weather and waves).

Parkers version of the "Egret" is, to my eye, much more "yachty" and should perform better. Nevertheless, if you build the masts and spars hollow and therefore lighter, you can make them a little longer to set more sailarea for the light wind days in croatia. But still not much space inside. Also note the other Designs on parkers website.

Years ago I have drawn (yes, as you can see ... pencil on paper) my own version of Egret, but in my search for performance I ended with a broad stern, more in the direction of the NIS Boats. But with a more economical usage of plywood and only 8m long (26'). It has a shallow keel that houses the centerboard for stability / performace. It has a full but simple accomodation with up to 4 bunks, galley and table, uninterrupted because the centerboard is housed in the keel. It uses a complete OK Dinghy Rig as the mizzen. Cheap and fast to build.

I made a model from the plan and equipped it with RC. It sails beautyful. Find the fotos attached.

 

[Igor]

Hello Igor,

well, I believe that the bad performance of the Egret belongs to the wooden boat magazine plans only. R. Parker means that their version is historically more correct and sacryfises speed in favour for seaworthiness to cope with the difficult conditionbes at the Florida Coast (running the inlets and sandbars, Gulf Stream weather and waves).

Parkers version of the "Egret" is, to my eye, much more "yachty" and should perform better. Nevertheless, if you build the masts and spars hollow and therefore lighter, you can make them a little longer to set more sailarea for the light wind days in croatia. But still not much space inside. Also note the other Designs on parkers website.

Years ago I have drawn (yes, as you can see ... pencil on paper) my own version of Egret, but in my search for performance I ended with a broad stern, more in the direction of the NIS Boats. But with a more economical usage of plywood and only 8m long (26'). It has a shallow keel that houses the centerboard for stability / performace. It has a full but simple accomodation with up to 4 bunks, galley and table, uninterrupted because the centerboard is housed in the keel. It uses a complete OK Dinghy Rig as the mizzen. Cheap and fast to build.

I made a model from the plan and equipped it with RC. It sails beautyful. Find the fotos attached.




View attachment 179897 View attachment 179898 View attachment 179899 View attachment 179900 View attachment 179901 View attachment 179902

Hello!

Parker flattened the run and elevated the stem in his version of the Egret, I can see how that can affect overall preformance.

There is one you tube video of Parker's Egret sailing downwind in the Atlantic swell, the boat rolls quite a bit, almost toerail to toerail. Dont know is that the hull shape vice (narrow, double-ended) or it happened just under special set of circumstances.

Your boat advances the idea even further, by removing the centreboard from the house a lot of space opens up, the ballast goes down low ih hollow stub keel (where it belongs) and all of the underwater appendages are hi aspect foil section to improve windward performance. It does remind me of NIS boats and I like it a lot. Hope you will build the full size version!

I have just revisited the Sharpie book, Parker claims that the North Carolina sharpie 33 and such were purposely built to work in "fierce gales that swept North Carolina Sounds in autumn" where the wind-swept shallows generate short steep chop. He also says that he would sail one to Bahamas in settled weather.

I keep wondering how such low box-like section boats which are quite light for their volume behave in a seaway, do they get pooped by waves or they just float on top of the waves and avoid worst of them by just being pushed aside instead of getting splashed over?

 

[luckystrike]

Hello Igor,

is there a particular reason why you are sticking to these large but very low Sharpies? Is it because you have only little money and want to build it traditionally with grown wood?

I don't think that extensive rolling is a reasoned in the dory shape of Egret. I think it would be saling ability of the crew or massive overwheight, which would be typical for sharpie builders. I have read building blogs that turned my stomach inside out. One Egret builder built the hull, then doubled the skin thickness, later deck also.

No, I will not build my design. Iam in favor for other kinds of boats, trimarans and small ocean going cruiser racers, but still with flat bottoms and chined construction.

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Second: Take a light, slim, low hull with wooden centerboard and no outside ballast and heavy solid wooden masts .... guess how it will sail in wind and waves. As a designer I would say: I do not design miracle boats.

plans https://parker-marine.com/parker2_1.htm

Have Fun, Michel

 

[Igor]

I really like the general concept of those boats, good looks, versatiliy and simplicity of the rig, straightforward building process out of common materials.. I would build one out of plywood, scantlings call for 12mm plywood side panels and single 19mm bottom panel.

The New Haven sharpie is maybe too extreme in proportions, the North Carolina 33 model looks like it could be more suited for my use being stiffer and could stand better to its sail area having more beam and fuller ends.

Mr Parker also recommended building weighted centreboard (up to 1000lbs) filled with lead shot, sand and polyester resin. The rest of the ballast (if needed) could be under bridge deck or as a one inch steel sheet ballast shoe on the bottom.

I have zero expirience with the type and boat design in general so please correct me if I am on the wrong track thinking that such boat would be fun, fast daysailer, beach cruiser-pushed to occasional odd week cruise for two in the Adriatic sea which is different than Long Island sound and Pamlico bay.

The boat I have now is just too slow and if I may use this expression, un-inspiring to sail so i paddle kayak and stand up paddleboard most of the time.

I also like multis, odd speed machines especially. I am currently building Gary Dierking's Va'a Motu outrigger sailing canoe and surfski kayak.
My ideal "big" boat would be clc's Madness proa, I have purchased the study plans for that one and I have to say it is one large project filled with hundreds of fiddly bits

Thank you for your help, Igor


*I was wrong about the Egret that rolled downwind, it was not the Parker's version of the boat but mr. Simon Lew's fiberglass one from some short production run with twin bilge boards instead of centreboard. The conditions in the Atlantic once he got out of the inlet remind me very much of local conditions in the Adriatic.

 

[Igor]

This is Chapelle's modified sharpie in 35ft range. Other than v bottom the lines are quite reminescent of North Carolina sharpie.

 

[Scuff]

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Have Fun, Michel

Which of Parker's designs have you built? Of the Parker designs you built which were unsatisfactory? I hope an admin will ban you for that comment totally inappropriate.

 

[Milehog]

Agreed, that was a bigoted, low-class comment.