High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

Talked to my crew Dan today and we may be able to start getting video in late March-early April. Some pictures of the Fire Arrow and my first foiler, the F3, designed, built and foiled many years ago. This coming year I hope to get spectacular video of the Fire Arrow since we've got it just about right. We'll also probably get video of the new D4Z cat-going to be a fun year we should hit some development milestones.

 

[NoEyeDeer]

Talked to my crew Dan today and we may be able to start getting video in late March-early April.

That's awesome, Doug. You'll be able to get in three more months of non-stop posting without having to sail the thing at all.

 

[Darth Reapius]

When was the last sail?...

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

DR, July 24th, 2014.

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

This post and the next post is a summary of all development that has happened so far:

This post and the following four posts are a comprehensive summary of the test videos, performance , specifications, changes, and analysis of the Fire Arrow's foiling performance.

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Testing will resume with much more video as soon as my "crew" Dan is available. The boat is ready and I'm sure ready.

Testing Status as of 11/9/14

It's interesting to note that this boat has been sailed a total of 1 hr 50 min with a total of 26 minutes and 38 seconds of sailing video uploaded to YouTube.
In that very short period of time, a radical foiler design using two different foil systems in a combination never before seen in the history of mankind was taken from light air testing to full flying foiling. This is a sort of Index so that if the reader is interested in reading about development milestones they can do so easily from this page:
Sailing History--( youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6S7JPG1d2uZ91lqt7ObyIw )

1) First Sail-6/17/14, page 91, post 1356. Total video time: 10:55. Total estimated sailing time:25 minutes.
video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0AHD34_-8c
video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74KEpcmgCh8
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2) Second Sail/ Foil Assist-6/26/14,page 93, post 1393. Total video time 4:42. Total estimated sailing time: 20 minutes.
video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF7cy8AoFnU
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3) Third Sail-7/10/14, page 102, post 1522. Total video time:2:58. Total estimated sailing time:30 minutes.
video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXCdAlo4mk
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4) Fourth Sail/ Full Flying Foiling-7/24/14, page 106, post 1589. Total video time: 7:48. Total estimated sailing time: 35 minutes.
video(long version)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YBOEolFqiE
video(short version)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mok3d4KiMI


Longest period of foiling=15 seconds-reason: Land
The boat would foil for hours in 5mph of wind or more if radio range wasn't a concern and if land didn't get it the way. She was rock steady in pitch and tended to roll a bit in waves always maintaining full foiling.
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Milestones of Development: (click on page above)

1) Reefing, page 102, post 1527
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2) Ama foil mods, page 104, post 1554,
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3) i-flap description, page 105, post 1561,
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4) Pictures of ama, main and rudder foil mods, page 105, post 1575
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5) Pictures of painted foils, page 106, post 1578,
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6) Summary of changes/fixes before first full flying video,page 106, post 1581,
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7) Changes made since first full foiling video, page 109, post 1626,also see page 111, posts 1659, 1661 and 1662,
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8) Removal of i-flap on port foil, page 109, post 1628 and 1630,
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9) GCD and Reefing, page 109, post 1631,
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10) Cutting mast for reefing, page 109, posts 1633-34,
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11) Updated Specifications, page 110, post 1639,
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12) Pictures of reefed rig, page 110, post 1642
==================

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

Here is a list of the modifications made since the First Foiling video on July 24th,2014. Number 10 added 10/17/14. Number 11 added 12/18/14. I've included page and post references:
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1) Changed the wand tension system to allow maximum force on the wand when it is down(flap generating downforce).-page 111, post 1662
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2) Painted small black section on hull immediately behind each wand(as viewed from the side) to help the white wand to show up better in the video.
-page 111, post 1661.
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3) 5 full length battens added to main,GCD removed and mast extention added, peak halyard and downhaul purchase increased. -page 109,posts 1631 and 1632.
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4) A reefing system is now incorporated in the rig with a removable mast section and velcro fasteners to hold the rolled up main.-page 109, post 1633-1634 and page 110, post 1642.
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5) i-Flap removed from port foil(still on stb foil) to see if I missed a step in ama foil development by not trying more area before I tried the i-Flap. The resulting foil has the same planform area as the foil with the i-Flap and a few degrees of washin towards the tip. -page 108,posts 1617 and 1618 and page 109 posts 1626 and 1630. Once I have these results I'll either add the i-Flap back to the port foil or remove it from the starboard foil. Then the process of changing the foil angle of incidence,first, and second changing foil area can start-modifying one foil at a time. The focus will be in reducing drag as much as possible within the constraint of light air takeoff which is the main focus of the Fire Arrow project.
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6) Considered adding aero drag reduction measures to the crossarms but postponed that due to a suggestion from Steve Clark,-page111, post 1653.
(While I greatly appreciate Steve's suggestion regarding aero improvements, I disagree with his assessment of the level of success achieved by the Fire Arrow in her first foiling video. My response to that: -page 116, post 1740)
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7) Added experimental endplates to the outboard ends of the partial span mainfoil flap. -page 112, posts 1667 and 1668.
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8) Added mount for a Velocitek Speed Puck to use to calibrate the i-GOTU* GPS tracker used since day one. -page 112, post 1670.
* see picture of the tracker and its installation on the boat page 113, post 1682.
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9) Moved the mast step aft as well as adding a second jib attachment point aft of the original. -see post 1772
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10) Re programmed the rudder so that exponential can be shut off. The programming used in the foiling video had two rudder programming options: either Dual Rate or Exponential but no "off". This was an overreaction on my part to the "over powered" video where excessive and fast rudder movement caused "pitch-ups" and was mostly responsible for the poor tacking evident in the video. The next time there will be Expo +Dual rate and "off".
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11) Will try to add a "Hoyt jib boom" mount to the deck to improve upwind performance. -see page 125,post 1861.
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So the major experiment for the next test sail is the port ama foil with the i-Flap removed compared to the starboard ama foil still using the i-Flap.
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[Doug Lord]

Test Models

I just read this by Paul Larsen-you know the fastest sailor on the planet. He is working hard to develop Sail Rocket 3 and one of his tools is a "Test Model" that he actually sails with radio control(I think). Just another of many designers that use an actual sailing model to test design theories-that's what Fire Arrow is-a scale model of a 19' trimaran testing dual foil systems never before used together on any trimaran in the history of mankind.
From Paul Larsen of the SR3(the ocean racing SailRocket) thread under Ocean Racing on SA:

I run my ideas and concepts through Malcolm and Chris to get their valued thoughts and realistic numbers assigned to them so we can check the VPP's to make sure we are on track. The numbers are good. There are no sponsors and although we have approached a couple, the nature of the proposal has already changed (for the better). It's actually very nice to be going through this almost artistic phase without any outside pressures. I am very happy with how things are progressing and the potential of the concept fills me with excitement. I have to contain that excitement so that I can see when things are wrong with clear eyes. That is why it is good to share it with fresh eyes occasionally. This stage cannot go on forever though. We will sail the next scale model of the concept in the next month and see if it supports our theories and how they developed from the first model. Next year we need to find partners to scale it all up.

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

These are the D4Z main foils assembled and roughed in. Final carbonating and cosmetics next. They are relevant to this thread because the Ctwist foil and the iFlap were both conceived of for the Fire Arrow and the iFlap was successfully tested in the foiling video. Late next year I'll probably make a larger version of this foil for the Fire Arrow-assuming the foil works well on the cat. It would experimentally replace the wand controlled mainfoil/flap now used. The version of this foil for the Fire Arrow would also using an upside down assymmetric section in the middle with fences on each side. The foils are "Curved Twisted Surface Piercing T-foils" serving as the main foils on the D4Z cat.
Click for best view---

 

[PerthMini40man]

28.8 km/hour

I managed to improve on my personal best on Saturday - got a top speed of 28.8km/hr in gusty conditions, followed by an inevitable capsize

Link to the action is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM8y6ccu5mY&feature=youtu.be

Rather a long video - sorry about that, the Mini40 sailing is at the end

 

[Doug Lord]

Ian: 17.9 mph!

Congratulations! That's tremendous......Looks like your iGOTU GPS tracker is doing the same thing mine was-ridiculous excursions in altitude. I wonder why they do that?
Foiler Tri starts at about 16:49 in. Man, what kind of screeching birds make that horrible noise?!

Heres the vid in "easy view" format:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM8y6ccu5mY&feature=youtu.be

 

[Doug Lord]

Seasons Greetings,Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development--the Lost Sail

Well, after the nerves and time constraints of getting the boat foiling, the time was never right to try the Code Zero and that will be changed when we start sailing again. It increases the total SA from 3390 to 4038sq.in.-almost a 20% increase. There were days that we could have used it(on the very first day I managed to forget the jib!) though she did remarkably well without it including foiling in a measured 5mph wind(not knots!).
The foil system on the boat works exceptionally well so far but we(Dan and I) will do much more testing in stronger wind which should be great fun with plenty to learn.
One of the primary things we'll be looking at is to what extent we can reduce the ama foil area, if any. The primary emphasis on this boat and its full size derivitive will be taking off in light air even at the cost of some top end speed if it comes down to that. This boat, and its offspring, stand a great change to revolutionize small trimaran design and that is the challenge ahead.
I'm thinking its going to be a great year for the Fire Arrow!

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

If this thing continues to perform as well as it has been I'm going to do everything in my power to get her built-and then go hunting. An opportunity may come about with Richard Woods whose comments about this test boat in the T20 thread are quite negative(see quote below). It would be a great honor to race the full size Fire Arrow against his 20 footer and illustrate how this boat works first hand for Mr.Woods! Of course, he'd have to look quick or he might miss some detail but when he finally makes it in I'd be glad to let him sail the boat.
There are a number of tri's coming on the market about the same length as the Fire Arrow-Mr. Woods boat and the rather slick but heavy Pulse 600 are two on the target list should the big boat get built. That would be the greatest possible way to wind up this project-flying the full size boat against "normal" trimarans--would be such a kick!
Another possibility is to build a smaller version of the Fire Arrow using the same foil system-say 15-16' which would have zero trouble with any 20' "normal" tri.
Exciting times ahead!(I hope)
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For the record:

To Doug, .... Please try to temper your enthusiasm, or build a 20ft foiling trimaran and show us all how good it is. Theory won't get you anywhere. And I'm afraid a few not too impressive sails of a R/C model aren't doing it for me.
Remember it will be four years on Sunday since you started your thread. I've built three small trimarans in that time, 10/15/18ft. So I have had fun sailing real boats while you are still talking about how great foils are, without actually getting on the water at all. Sorry, rant over

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

And some Fire Arrow test model pictures actually on the water! Note pictures "A" and "B" below-they illustrate perfectly how the UptiP ama foils control altitude with no adjustment-in "A" the ama is already flying with the main hull still seahugging, in "B" the main hull is flying with the ama altitude still the same. Two different load and speed cases and same ama altitude-you can't beat that with no moving parts! And a picture of a concept model of a smaller version of the Fire Arrow:
click for best view--

 

[2far2drive]

If this thing continues to perform as well as it has been I'm going to do everything in my power to get her built-and then go hunting. An opportunity may come about with Richard Woods whose comments about this test boat in the T20 thread are quite negative. It would be a great honor to race the full size Fire Arrow against his 20 footer and illustrate how this boat works first hand for Mr.Woods! Of course, he'd have to look quick or he might miss some detail but when he finally makes it in I'd be glad to let him sail the boat.
There are a number of tri's coming on the market about the same length as the Fire Arrow-Mr. Woods boat and the rather slick but heavy Pulse 600 are two on the target list should the big boat get built. That would be the greatest possible way to wind up this project-flying the full size boat against "normal" trimarans
would be such a kick!
Another possibility is to build a smaller version of the Fire Arrow using the same foil system-say 15-16' which would have zero trouble with any 20' "normal" tri.
Exciting times ahead!(I hope)
=======

For the record:



And some Fire Arrow test model pictures actually on the water and a picture of a concept model of a smaller version of the Fire Arrow:

I have to say I agree with Richard. You continually repost the same stuff over and over. This is one of the longest threads on here and its the only time I've seen someone keep posting the same thing over and over while actually not sailing/testing. The fact that you refuse to sail without a cameraman is ridiculous and even more so that you have made a ton of changes to the boat without ANY intermittent testing tells me flat out that you simply dont get scientific method at all.

the T20 thread is not limiting anything by not allowing foils. As was already noted, a control must be in place to stop all out single season race boats from ruling the course and foils tend to go that way.

the fact that the fire arrow couldn't compete in the everglades challenge sounds pretty limiting to me.

 

[Doug Lord]

Fire Arrow Foiler / MPX Foil System Testing and Development

I have to say I agree with Richard. You continually repost the same stuff over and over. This is one of the longest threads on here and its the only time I've seen someone keep posting the same thing over and over while actually not sailing/testing. The fact that you refuse to sail without a cameraman is ridiculous and even more so that you have made a ton of changes to the boat without ANY intermittent testing tells me flat out that you simply dont get scientific method at all.

the T20 thread is not limiting anything by not allowing foils. As was already noted, a control must be in place to stop all out single season race boats from ruling the course and foils tend to go that way.

the fact that the fire arrow couldn't compete in the everglades challenge sounds pretty limiting to me.

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One thing is very important for you to understand: I have never nor would I ever disparage Richard Woods work-why he chose to disparage my work in the way he did is beyond me. Hopefully, I can get this thing built full size and discuss it with him in person on the water.
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That's just absurd-there was discussion of possibly having two divisions and that's a good idea. Whats not a good idea is a new class of just the same old same old stuff-you say I repeat stuff but you missed what I wrote below and you want to repeat the "traditional" tri design that compared to a tri using modern technology is slow and does nothing to fully exploit the trimaran platform.
It's too bad you haven't read any of the stuff you say I'm repeating over and over-maybe I need to repeat it more frequently:
1) I cant get all the stuff in my car with the new stand and ama foils,
2) I can't launch the boat from the stand to the water alone.
3) Sailing without getting video is just stupid when what you're doing is testing a design. The video is an essential tool to learn what works and how.
4) My crew was unavailable from July 25th 2014 thru to late March or early April 2015.
And I didn't say the Fire Arrow couldn't compete in the Everglades Challenge I said it might not be suitable and I'd have to study the race. This boat is not suitable for foiling in less than 2' of water. But I've read that there is the possibility of an outside course-it might work out -I just don't know.