High end vs low end cruising catamaran

Consider for a given budget one can build smaller catamaran using fancy high end composites, rig and sails. On the other hand same amount of budget will build larger cat from cheaper materials like wood and plywood and second hand rig, deck hardware and sails. Use case would be long term cruising for both boats. Assume both are open deck fairly minimalistic boats with no fancy interiors and minimal systems. Consider high tech boat is somewhere 11 - 12 meter long and low tech boat around 14 - 15 meters long.

Which would make better cruising catamaran?

 

What is "better" for you? The logical thing to think is that the best boat is the one that makes you the most money. See what you can do with each one, the type of passage you can expect, the type of cruise you can offer in each case, and the selling price of the ticket. Apart from high or low technology, you must take into account the operating costs.

 

As TANSL said, what's better for you? What are your expectations?
If you can live with a 11-12m boat why do you want a 14-15m one, and vice-versa?

From a technical standpoint the fancy composite boat will bring one thing to the table, lightness, wich translates to either speed or carry ability. The longer ply one will theoretically bring better sea keeping abilities, of course presuming both designs are equally good.

There is also other options, longer high tech hull with second hand rig or shorter ply hull with good sails and everything in between.

 

Use case being long term cruising, a glass boat will outlive a plywood vessel, and will require less maintenance.
Reliability and low maintenance are important to a cruiser, so high tech sails/rigging may not be the best choice here.
Budget is your call entirely, can’t help you there!

 

Plywood is about 5 times faster to build.

A bigger boat cannot be single handed.

A bigger boat takes longer to build.

You are trapping yourself in a poor decision making paradigm. By comparing a low tech bigger and a high tech smaller and setting size as a tradeoff; you may choose poorly. Consider, either material can be used for either vessel. And any size vessel can be built. Then reset your thinking into the real questions.

How big to build for use case and time.
How fancy to build for time, resale, etc,

I built a wet bagged epoxy corecell hard chine boat and honestly, plywood would have been way easier, and taken at least one year; maybe 2 off the built time.

 

It wouldn't be commercial operation more for private use so these considerations would be fairly low priority. Operating costs definitely more priority parking cost alone could be twice as big for bigger boat although cruisers generally tend to anchor so there would be mitigating factor.

Some considerations. smaller composite boat would be lighter, but when loaded for cruising it would become heavy. Bigger boat would be heavier , but it would have longer waterline and the same load would be proportionally much less. Good point about sea keeping, bigger boat would likely be more comfortable both when sailing and in not perfectly calm anchorages which is important factor for cruisers.

Good point about maintanance, but considering plywood would be covered with fiberglass wouldn't that mitigate it. Obviously any damages must be repaired immediately and any screw holes must be drilled and filled with epoxy before bolting on something.

Budget is limiting factor. Same budget builds larger low tech boat vs smaller high tech boat. Obviously bigger high tech boat would be out of budget.
My idea is minimalistic boat with long waterline that's why I think bigger but lower tech has advantages here. Plywood being faster to build is big bonus. Essentially Wharram catamaran but with more modern performance hulls. Bigger boat is harder to single hand, but are really 14 - 15 m cat with fairly modest rig already at this limit? Monster round the world racing trimarans can be single handed non stop around the world and those have probably 10x sail area.
Resale likely would suffer since this type of boat is not what mass market wants, but I'm ok with that.

 

Comparing two theoretical boats isn't simple. Displacement (weight) is one factor that has to be determined beforehand, and it's entirely arbitrary how you do it.
The general rule for long range cruising is that each person needs 1-1.5t of carrying capacity. Any multihull will react badly to beeing overloaded, it's the captains job to make sure this doesn't happen.

It is possible to have two boats of different lengths with the same maximum displacement, the difference will be in the weight carrying capacity. Example: both boats are designed for 5t max., but for one the distribution will be 2t boat and 3t "cargo" and the other 4t boat and 1t "cargo".
It is also possible to have two different lenght boats with the same carrying capacity, and dissimilar max. displacement.
The displacement distribution between light and max. is an important budgetary factor. Asuming two tons of wood/epoxy cost as much as one ton on foam/glass/polyester, the question becomes if you can actually build the boat you want with that amount of material. Because if you need three tons of wood/epoxy to achieve your goals, the build has suddenly become more expensive.
A heavier (max displacement) boat needs more sail and bigger hardware. Is the second hand bigger winch cheaper then the brand new smaller one? Some hardware can't be second hand because it's critical (chainplates, standing rigging, rudder, etc.). Used sails will have a shorter lifespan then new ones.

Comfort is all about perception. A longer and heavier boat will behave differently, but this behavior will feel different to different people. That's why my previous post uses the words "theoretically" and "equally good" because it's not a given. Overall design (hull shape, buoyancy and weight distribution) is probably more important than the lenght difference. Wich brings us right back to how you decide on displacement, because hull shape changes with it.

To be able to make some more realistic estimates you need to fix some parameters first. How much weight carrying capacity do you need, how little space can you live with, etc. And when you compare prices please keep in mind you are in the EU. Shipping materials from Poland, Germany or Bulgaria to your door could be cheaper then buying local.

 

If your budget is the limiting factor and you care about the time it takes to build, you might consider buying a used boat. There are production boats in reasonable shape that sell for less that it costs to build a boat. There are occasionally home/amateur-built boats on the used market for much less than they would cost to build. A refit is often easier and usually cheaper than a scratch build. I understand the desire to build a boat (it's why many of us spend time on these forums) but it's hard to beat the cost of a used vessel.

 

Fast, Comfortable, Cheap. You can choose 2

Having said that like cubic inches there is no substitute for waterline length.

 

Red her. A LOTTER of tries similar as this, so many!

Wharram ? WY ?

Foam can get cheap but!!! Mast, sails, motor, etc etc...

Hull not the problem!!!!!!

15m x 8m 20 years!!! $$$$$$

1 people ? 2 ?

Ocean ?

3t in boat so ...

https://www.mikewalleryachts.com/coral-cove-40-catamaran

+/-...

Sailing Catamarans - Mirage - 11m hard chine open deck cruiser http://sailingcatamarans.com/index.php/designs-2/5-catamarans-over-40ft/179-mirage

etc...

or bi!!!!

 

If budget is an issue, you may as well forget a 15M cat. It will take a lot more money and a lot more time than a 12M. It isn’t about ply vs core. A core boat uses infusion or wetbagging to payoff ito weight; the benefits are lighter boat; the cost is time and money.

@Rumars post touches on same in a different way..

Build a 12M ply hull or buy used.

 

Mulkari. What do you want? I have sailed o 45 foot cats capable of 22 knot averages over 50 miles, on 55 foot racing tris capable of a steady 26 knots plus for an hour, a 37 foot light tube cats that could do 300 mile days. Not one of them averaged any more than 8 to 10 knots when cruising. Reason, when you start getting above 10 knots your boat starts to become uncomfortable in any sort of seaway. Only when you are broad reaching or running can you maintain higher speeds with some comfort. PS its wise to sleep with your feet facing forward at higher speeds to save having your head hit bulkheads first when you dive into the back of a wave.

Next boat building is about surface area and complexity. A 38 foot Wharram has about the same build surface area as a 38 foot bridge deck cabin cat with a shorter wing deck and narrower hulls. From my experience it will be easier to build the bridge deck cat than a Wharram inspite of the marketing hype by some.

Materials are not just about cost. In Australia a sheet of ply covered with glass and epoxy backed by timber is more expensive than Chinese direct import foam glass materials to make the same structures. Also, if your skill is in wood you will work faster, if your skill is in foam glass especially in resin infused flat panels, you can build very fast.

Design is number one in reducing cost. If your design is good and complete you will not redo things, over or under build, have to pull out a panel to fit a water tank or fuel tank, design a special steering station, do a rib where a structural piece of furniture could go, have to reinforce a deck panel because a turning block is required to get a rope to a winch position etc. If the design is done well with all deck gear sorted out you will find you can often halve the number of winches you need, minimise turning blocks, reduce rope runs etc. Get this correct and for the same payload you can build a lighter boat.

The less electrics, plumbing, deck gear, internal fit out and fancy bits (solar panels, water makers, anchor winches etc) the cheaper the boat gets.

Size is up to you but a well designed 40 footer without a lot of junk aboard will be relatively cheap and cruise as fast as a 50 footer. Please talk to large Wharram owners about the average speed they sail at, also talk to any real cruiser as to what speeds they really cruise at, 120 to 200 mile days are normal, translation 5 to 8 knots.

As Jeff Schoinning said to me one day, he sells dreams, boats are just the means to make the dream reality. Go as small as you can to fit the realistic number of people you will sail with and get on the water sooner with a bigger cruising budget. Build a good shell and add stuff later if you need to.

 

If the main goal is to cruise for a long time on a limited budget, a smaller cheaper boat without fancy gadgets is best. A larger boat will cost you more each time you dock or haul out for maintenance. Also, if the main goal is to cruise with a limited budget, the logical plan is to buy a used boat and go out to sea.

 

Currently I own a 9.5 x 5.5 meter open deck strip planked foam glass catamaran I built myself. I have sailed all over Baltic sea and a bit of North sea and Norwegian fjords with it. It goes fast when kept light, but when loaded for one month trip and some 4 - 6 people come on board it becomes noticeably slower and obviously it is fairly cramped. My ideal long term cruising boat would be basically same, but scaled up by factor of 1.5 , By then hulls would be big enough to have plenty of room and storage space. Maybe only one hull fitted out for living other just storage and some bunk space to save on construction time. Since I'm used to sailing a fast boat I want similar, preferably better performance. Would be nice to have 2 - 3 ton payload capacity and still maintain good performance. Sailing fast is fun and fast boat can find more good weather windows for particular trip than slow boat that may need up to twice as much time to go same distance

When I built my boat joining hulls together with 3 aluminium pipes and building plywood deck between second and third pipe was really fast compared to building a bridgedeck cabin. I may be pulling numbers out of thin air, but I suspect building a lean open deck 14 - 15 m plywood cat may be not that much more time than fatter 12 - 13 m composite bridgedeck cabin cat. Both may have similar internal volume and surface area.

Trouble is that what I want isn't mass market boat and around me I haven't found anything I would like. If I were after monohull or average party barge style cat then it would make no sense building it. Buy a cheap busted one fix it and go. A second hand Wharram cat is closest that sometimes appear for sale, but I want more performance hull shape than deep V.

Yeah that's why desire for lean long boat. Basically if you scale up a beachcat at some point you will end up with hulls big enough to live inside in reasonable comfort and still have all the attributes for performance with less cost than typical heavy bridgedeck cabin cat.

I already have small performance cat that I cruise. It just doesn't have room and load capacity for extended traveling especially if more than 1 - 2 people on board. I rarely visit marinas so higher marina cost once in a while would be acceptable tradeoff. Goal would be to have very simple boat, outboard motor, transom hung kick up rudders tiller steering, kick up boards, no underwater through hull fittings. If there is nothing except hull below waterline then no need to lift out often.
Maintaining my little 9.5 meter cat costs less than maintaining my car. What's exactly there to maintain that much? Outboard needs yearly oil change, few years ago I damaged propeller on a rock so that needed replacement, recently replaced fuel pump, sometimes new pulley block needs to be bought, some new rope occasionally. Overall there is very little that can go wrong on simple boat. Unless I start to shred sails, break mast, have a hard crash into rocks requiring tons of epoxy to fix there is very little ongoing maintenance costs.

 

I’d be looking at a Simpson
12.2m Woodwind Catamaran : Boatcraft Pacific, the home of wooden boat building. https://boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=32_33&products_id=60

Or a Woods.
Sailing Catamarans - Mirage - 11m hard chine open deck cruiser http://sailingcatamarans.com/index.php/designs-2/5-catamarans-over-40ft/179-mirage
The beauty of a ply design is you can build a flat table and vacuum bag or infuse a bunch of panels in vinyl ester for a more durable but still economic build.