Catamaran wing sail idea

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by jacknalias, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. jacknalias
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    jacknalias Junior Member

    Is there a boat designer / builder here that I could get with about a catamaran wing sail idea I'd like to pursue?
    I'm new to the forum, I hope I haven't already broken a rule. At least I'm not selling anything.
    Or contact me directly at JackNalias-14 & with the yahoo domain.
    Thanks!
    Jack
     
  2. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

  3. jacknalias
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    jacknalias Junior Member

    Thanks, Angelique! Very interesting thread.

    What I'm investigating is more like ...how feasible is it to add two 19-foot wing sails (one per hull) on an existing motor catamaran of about 44 feet in length? Or, if not feasible, who could build one?

    Thanks

    Jack
     
  4. jacknalias
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    jacknalias Junior Member


    I guess I should clarify even more...yes I know anything is feasible & anyone can build anything, for enough money. What I'm seeking is someone who can give me some rough estimates of cost for the different approaches.

    I'm not looking to set any speed records, & I don't care if it ends up being mostly a motor boat than sail boat.
     
  5. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Jack, the wing sail is enticing but it has some drawbacks for use by other than experienced and adventurous sailors. For starters it is a bit difficult to reduce sail when that is the prudent or even the immediately needed thing to do. Another thing is that wings sails are most fussy about how they are trimmed. The optimum lift envelope is very small. Take note of the Americas Cup boats that have elaborate digital analysis systems that are used to trim the wings so precisely. Not an easy thing to do for we ordinary humans.. Impossible ? No. Practical.....the jury is out.
     
  6. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Also, on an existing motor catamaran you - might - find the problem of extra weight and a downward force to the bows instead of a lifting force like could come from the motors.
     
  7. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    And also on an existing power cat you most likely need to add some means of leeway resistance to the hull when adding sails.

    But this is to overcome, I've posted some info about this in various replies on the thread: Make your catamaran boat

    The problem Jorge named in the above post however is far more difficult or not at all to overcome on an existing power cat, I'll think.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  8. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Jack, I've just grabbed this from the web, so I don't know them, and didn't have a good look at the info yet, so it's here just to share, so everyone can check it for themselves, and maybe discus it here . . ?

    42' Motor Sailing HydroFoil Assisted Diesel Electric Hybrid Catamaran - ---> - Omer Wing Sails
    [​IMG] - - - - [​IMG]

    [​IMG] - - - - [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Note regarding the above, at least ‘‘Diesel Electric Hybrid’’ combined with ‘‘Outboard powered’’ seems vapourware to me, or these are just two different auxiliary propulsion options, if they're meaning gasoline outboards . . ? ?

    P.S. - Jack, note the daggerboard in the mid of pic 3 to provide leeway resistance, which is something pure power cats don't have.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  10. jacknalias
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    jacknalias Junior Member

    Wow these comments are exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks!
    It helps explain why I can't find any boats like this! lol

    But would wingsails be an option if: 1) mounted at the right point forward/aft for balance; &, 2) if intended as supplemental or emergency power, not really the primary?
    For example, if I had a motor yacht catamaran & wanted to go 1,000 miles, but my safe diesel range was not that far, would wing sails allow me to shut off the diesels for some distances & just wingsail it? I wouldn't care about exact trimming or precision.

    And thank you for the reference to Omer Wing Sails. Are they out of Israel? I hadn't seen those renderings. I did see this (WOW: the wing sail technology for large cruising yachts by Wally and Omer Wing Sail https://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht-news/wow-the-wing-sail-technology-for-large-cruising-yachts-by-wally-and-omer-wing-sail) I contacted them, & the one on the West Coast (Harbor Wing Technologies - Autonomous Unmanned Surface Vessel - AUSV http://www.harborwingtech.com/faq.htm). The West Coast folks never responded. The Israel people have been very nice, but they basically imply that they want me to commission a boat, which is understandable from their perspective, but I'd really first like to see what's feasible. I'm not a beta-tester.

    As for ‘‘Diesel Electric Hybrid’’ together with ‘‘Outboard powered," those more feasible, proven technology used in other applications, but still limited to fuel range.
     
  11. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    It's not just about weight balance but let's say you got it all worked out ...

    Yet another thing to consider is what speeds are you expecting while motoring, I assume power mode will be displacement or else if your intending to go fast planing then consider the resistance and jarring stresses to the masts. Might make sense to have them hinged for those occasions.
     
  12. jacknalias
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    jacknalias Junior Member

    ouch another good point. If I have to do stuff like have masts engineered to hinge, then it goes in to the "non-feasible" category for me. Hopefully having 2 shorter ones, one in each hull, would be better for resistance & jarring issues than one really tall large one in the middle.
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Simply put, if you have a power cat currently and are hoping to add some supplementary wind power, you're options are limited in efficiency and point of sail unless considerable alteration to the hulls can be made. You can have a down wind rig, that's much simpler than rigid or semi rigid sails. Wing sails are great, though not on your boat and they're not cheap or easy to maintain or operate, particularly for a novice sailor. With some minor alterations (leeboards or similar) you could get a broad or close reach sailing rig to work, but this would had some additional complication to the affair. I'm not sure of your experiences, but generally most cruisers find they motor 50%+ most of the time and this would be on a real sailing cruiser, where hoisting/dousing and other sail handling duties are routine and well engineered. If hoping to extend you motoring range, consider a much simpler approuch, like a single (cat) or sloop rig with more conventional appointments. Gear is readily available and easy to retrofit. A biplane rig, maybe biplane cats can be fairly easy, though your performance and usefulness will be somewhat less than a more conventional cat or sloop.
     
  14. jacknalias
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    jacknalias Junior Member

    Wow, sounds like you folks answered my question: it's not feasible! LOL Darn. So I'm back to looking for a sailing catamaran that has a better living area & one that will allow 2 monster outboards.

    Thank you all for the responses!
     

  15. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Jack, best call David, he's able to hook up some monster outboards to a sailing cat for you, I believe . . . o_O
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
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