AC 45 World Championship Cheating??

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Aug 10, 2013.

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  1. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Doug and Ad Hoc...

    You two guys are entertaining.
    Oil and water mix better.
     
  2. nota
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    nota Junior Member

    2 kilo really all this bs over 2 kilo

    tempest in a teacup

    the stupid is strong in this snafu

    lets embarrass mega buck sponsors
    over a piddle

    any one really think 2 kilo will make any difference ?
     
  3. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    It would confer some advantage with that positioning, not much though. The main point is that it's supposed to be a one design class and the additional correction weight was placed in a non prescribed part of the boat. That would mean the boat would fall outside the measurement requirements.
     
  4. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    And not be eligible to compete in the event.

    Earl, in this thread, mentioned that the Protocol basically rolls the AC45 events in as part of the AC - you had to compete in the 45's to be eligible for the AC.
    Could this imply that ISAF could disqualify Team OR from the AC ? I am asking not to provoke OR supporters, but to get a better understanding, so please don't take this question as an attack on your team. I'm asking, could ISAF rule that OR has failed to meet the entrance requirement of the AC, according to the Protocol if the Protocol required teams to do the AC45 circuit, since they voluntarily withdrew from a large portion of the AC45 events ? Or would some other fine be imposed (perhaps not by ISAF, but the AC events management body - was there a fine for not attending one or more AC45 events, if a team did not attend an AC45 event ? And could this be retroactively imposed on OR for withdrawing their entries from those events ? If according the the event Protocol, you had to do a certain number of AC45 events to qualify for the AC, have OR complied with this requirement, after withdrawing from so many events ?) I am asking out of interest, I would sincerely hope that this can be resolved without damage to the AC event as a whole. I would hate to have OR removed from this event, and the final be between two boats whom we already know the outcome of.
    One thing is for sure, books will be written about this AC, lawyers and authors are rubbing their hands..
     
  5. motorbike
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    motorbike Senior Member

    Its 2.5 kg about x number of metres from the CG, its also 2.5 kg not in the aft end of these boats which are a tad heavy in the rear. Its also not meant to be there in a one design and it may simply be the lead they forgot about removing.

    Your argument is to reduce the infraction to absurdity, but you havent noticed that OR have admitted not complying and there is an IJ investigation. This will get uglier!
     
  6. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Is there a date set for the IJ hearing's findings to be made public, or do they first refer their findings to ISAF for a decision on the penalty and who takes it. Does ISAF or the IJ decide the penalty ? Will this be sorted out before the AC Finals ? Sorry for all the questions, if someone knows this stuff it is much easier to ask it here than for me to spend the rest of the week reading about it..
     
  7. nota
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    nota Junior Member

    A CREW MAN MOVED 1'' ON THE RAIL
    would have a far greater effect on fore-aft trim
    then 2 kilos

    really this kind of BS is not doing the sport any good :confused:
    I see no point in investigations or calling this BS cheating :rolleyes:

    mostlikely some gofer did it out of lazyness or error
    hardly a plot to cheat

    more like a plot to get back at the corprats involved ?

    and if the boats needed repairs why not just add material reinforcements
    to the unbroken boats weak points ?
    why add lead at all to cat ?
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    The report of the jury is the only opinion that matters now-it's in their hands.
     
  9. motorbike
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    motorbike Senior Member

    You have answered your own question. Lets see how it plays out
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  11. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    From XS Sailing :

    COULD ORACLE BE DISQUALIFIED FROM THE AMERICA'S CUP ?

    "The international jury is investigating and could punish Oracle with a fine, forfeiture of races or disqualification from the America’s Cup.

    Any punishment would be another smudge on an already troubled regatta."
     
  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I suspect that forfeiture of the races is what will happen. The guilty crews will suffer a financial penalty. These crews, teams, work for a salary plus a perfomance bonus. No results, no bonus.

    Disqaulification from the Americas cup would be a draconian penalty. It would be bad for the sport and just wont happen
     
  13. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Michael, While I agree with you on this, I am a little skeptical about RC's last sentence in the Scuttlebutt interview Doug linked to. I would prefer it if the IJ had determined this fact, rather than the team itself, as the team has vested interests in ensuring that non-sailing team members of a lower order will carry the blame, regardless of who actually decided it would be a good idea to modify the boats, so when they do hang the scapegoats out to dry I will have a tough time believing them, unless some management level team members are outed, which won't happen based on RC's comments.
    I'm not really sure how Team OR will retain it's integrity after all this, although a small 'error', it has large implications in a sport which is self-governing and relies on honesty between all involved.
    I think that is why ISAF takes infringements like this very seriously, if they don't impose a very harsh penalty, they will just be endorsing this type of behaviour.
     
  14. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Well...In my opinion the entire sailing team is guilty. In formula one they dont penalize the pit crew for racing with an illegal car.

    I dont know the hierarchy of the team..whether the big guys at the top, the CEO or whatever they call themselves, are liable .

    Too much punishment is counterproductive.
     

  15. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    He does it because it succeeds brilliantly in his own frame of reference.

    This speculative thread is now three pages long and growing. Doug is incredibly successful at initiating discussions, germinating conflict and catalysing other people to engage on subjects he is interested in. Doug is without a doubt a defacto Huffington Post of the boating world, aggregating content and generating endless commentary.

    As builders, technologists, Engineers, Naval Architects and amateur designers many people here might expect a primarily polite technical objective forum for open discussion of a wide range of boat design issues. I'm not saying my personal expectations are right. It is the majority of forum members and web site owner that have directed and permitted the conversations to go where they are today.

    --
    CutOnce
     
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