Build vs Buy - Cat vs Tri

[headingwest]

Hi All, firstly apologies for asking very basic questions, but I'm missing my sailing and starting out on a long decision process to acquire my next boat.

I'm based in Sydney, Australia.

My budget is $80,000 Aussie ($60,000 USD) but I'd rather spend closer to $50,000 AUD ($40,000 USD).

I'd like a multi (cat or tri) for weekends and occasional coastal day trips. It needs to be comfortable for my wife with a double bed, toilet, and fun for my 2 kids. At most we'd stay 3 nights. Able to coastal cruise would be a bonus.

I love making things, furniture, fitting out rooms etc, but have never taken on a boat. Also my back is dodgy.

So I'm probably looking at 26' to 34' used cat, or trying to build one.

The market here in Australia is expensive, you don't get much for $50,000. At first I thought about building but from the forum posts here it seems it's cheaper to buy 2nd hand??? Is this right?

If I buy a 20yo boat is it going to cost me double by the time it's seaworthy?? Will there be cracks, rot etc?

Or should I try to find a simple cat design to build? Are there designs that can be built in under 2000 hours? Are there designs I can build mostly in my double garage?

I'd also be happy with a tri, if that works out cheaper.

I love the Harryproa concept but these are VERY long for building in my garage and also not sure about resale.

Also if Sydney is so expensive, can I buy used overseas and ship it here??

Really I want most bang for my buck, enjoy making things, but don't want false ideas about the amount of money and time involved. I'd also like to get sailing in the next 3 years and can probably only commit 15-20 hours per week.

Thanks for any assistance and ideas, apologies again if this is vague or previously asked.

Thanks again,

Jim.

 

[Rurudyne]

You might try to find someone else's unfinished dream. For instance, though in Texas I plugged in some search values ("free boat Australia") and found something called "Gumtree" and, presented here just for fun, this: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/adelaide-cbd/motorboats-powerboats/wooden-boat-/1074375799

It appears to be a so far nicely made trailerable 6m cruiser with a Yanmar engine. IOW: much of the expense and time to build and probably at a discount ... despite my search engine input it isn't free.

It isn't what you've described, but then again I only posted it as proof you can find them.

Edit: looked a few minutes more, here's a 12m "Wharram" that looks like the builder plopped an old-style trimaran bridge deck on: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/derby/sail-boats/wharam-design/1106922279

Not pretty but potentially well within your budget depending on what a surveyor says.

 

[redreuben]

Build V Buy is an ongoing dilemma, there was a Cirrostratus trimaran in Melbs at about $40k which looked great value, building is for those who really, really want to, for the journey. Buying secondhand can get you on the water but ongoing costs are higher as you mentioned. At the 26' end there is an unfinished Scarab tri in Perth which may work for you, link on the scarab site. Cats only really work better than tri's over 30', think Simpson Groundeffect.
Importing used may work if the numbers stack up but I'm no expert on that, use the search function it has been discussed, also over at Cruisers forum.
Good luck.

 

[Stumble]

I doubt you could build what you are after for that price, you absolutely could buy it used in the States, not sure about Aus. But take a look for an older Corsair 24mkii.

 

[catsketcher]

You can do it

A Simpson formula one may do or a Woodwind. I like the Searunners (but I am a romantic) and tris are great value. You could probably get a Harris 42 trimaran for about $60 000. Great value and heaps of room. This is an old ad

http://cooloola.australialisted.com...ft-trimaran-quick-sale-69000ono_18438329.html

cheers

Phil

 

[rob denney]

Hi All, firstly apologies for asking very basic questions, but I'm missing my sailing and starting out on a long decision process to acquire my next boat.

I'm based in Sydney, Australia.

My budget is $80,000 Aussie ($60,000 USD) but I'd rather spend closer to $50,000 AUD ($40,000 USD).

I'd like a multi (cat or tri) for weekends and occasional coastal day trips. It needs to be comfortable for my wife with a double bed, toilet, and fun for my 2 kids. At most we'd stay 3 nights. Able to coastal cruise would be a bonus.

I love making things, furniture, fitting out rooms etc, but have never taken on a boat. Also my back is dodgy.

So I'm probably looking at 26' to 34' used cat, or trying to build one.

The market here in Australia is expensive, you don't get much for $50,000. At first I thought about building but from the forum posts here it seems it's cheaper to buy 2nd hand??? Is this right?

If I buy a 20yo boat is it going to cost me double by the time it's seaworthy?? Will there be cracks, rot etc?

Or should I try to find a simple cat design to build? Are there designs that can be built in under 2000 hours? Are there designs I can build mostly in my double garage?

I'd also be happy with a tri, if that works out cheaper.

I love the Harryproa concept but these are VERY long for building in my garage and also not sure about resale.

Also if Sydney is so expensive, can I buy used overseas and ship it here??

Really I want most bang for my buck, enjoy making things, but don't want false ideas about the amount of money and time involved. I'd also like to get sailing in the next 3 years and can probably only commit 15-20 hours per week.

Thanks for any assistance and ideas, apologies again if this is vague or previously asked.

Thanks again,

Jim.

There are plenty of low cost 2nd hand boats about. Most require work and replacing stuff, but with luck, this can be put off until you have had a season or so of enjoyment. Check out The Coastal Passage. Some suitable boats (and some dreamers!) there. http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/multihulls.html Sailing boats down from the Reef can be a challenge.

Old boats are no more or less likely to be problems than newer ones. A surveyor is a must if you are not experienced.

If you have a crook back, you will not enjoy conventional boat building (too much bending over, working overhead and at funny angles and hard work. Nor will you build a conventional 30'ter in 1,000 hours.

Shipping is calculated by how many container spaces the boat takes up. A 35 x 20 tri is 3 containers wide by one long. About $15,000. Plus duty (~5%) and gst on the cost or value of the boat.

If your wife and kids don't mind sleeping in tents on the tramp, then Expeditionarry http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=expeditionarry-2 would do nicely and fit your budget and timescale. Depowering it and adding more hull space are options depending on the enthusiasm of your wife and kids.

If the double bed needs to be in a hull, then a Solitarry http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=solitarry-50 windward hull fits the bill, with the longest lee hull you can get away with. 35' would work, but 40 would be better. Build the ww hull, beams etc first, then take a bottle of wine to the neighbours and ask them if they would mind a tarpaulin extension to the garage for a couple of weeks while you built the lee hull. Otherwise, hire a shed, or build the hull in two halves and join them. The hulls are much easier to build now than when the Sol in the video was built.

If you're interested, drop me a line harryproa@gmail.com and I will send you the materials list and we can discuss your options.

Resale value will not be huge, but this applies to any small boat. If you get the cost of the materials out of it, you are doing well. Second hand resale will be better, but not if you have to put a lot of time or money into it.
rob

 

[Corley]

Another thought is Kukara a Crowther Impala trimaran assuming it passed a survey it could be a good buy.

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...trimaran-reduced-price-for-urgent-sale/169884

 

[gonzo]

If you are planning of buying a used boat, first try to find a marine surveyor you can trust. His/hers expert opinion is the best insurance about the condition of a boat.

 

[aussiebushman]

Hi
I have learned the hard way that building is not really a viable option at your budget. My 30 Simpson Signwave ended up at over the $100k mark and that was some years ago and it took a LOT of labour, not the least of which was sourcing components.

If you look around, you will find a sound cat at a very keen price, The trick is to make sure you identify the real reason for the sale. meaning avoid something that has rot, or has been badly built. A deceased estate, a divorce sale or someone moving overseas would be reasons to get serious.

Re accommodation, your back trouble and your wife's comfort should be high on the list of selection priorities. Many designs around 30-25' will offer bridge-deck seating, with berths, galley and probably a heads/shower in the hulls.

Good luck with your quest

Alan

 

[Rurudyne]

If you look around, you will find a sound cat at a very keen price, The trick is to make sure you identify the real reason for the sale. meaning avoid something that has rot, or has been badly built. A deceased estate, a divorce sale or someone moving overseas would be reasons to get serious.

This wise advice reminded me of the joke where a woman is selling her husband's pristine, low mileage 911 Turbo for $50 because her husband, having run off with his secretary, asked her to sell it and send him the cash.

 

[aussiebushman]

That would be funny if it was not so close to the truth!

My ex wife refused to pay a bill and did such a snow job on our daughters and the lawyers that the boat was sold as a "fire sale" for around $40k when it was worth (surveyors's estimate) at least $80k at the time.

Trust me - such deals are not uncommon - just ask around

Alan

 

[Rurudyne]

Ouch! Sorry about that.

 

[aussiebushman]

WA is not real convenient for someone in Sydney to look at the boat , but just saw this on Gumtree. http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/derby/sail-boats/wharam-design/1106922279

Can't say I'm mad on Wharram but this looks good

Alan

 

[redreuben]

Aussie, it was a Wharram at some point, looks more like a houseboat now, not my idea of a "sailing" cat.

 

[Rurudyne]

Aussie, it was a Wharram at some point, looks more like a houseboat now, not my idea of a "sailing" cat.

As you're not an American this may not (or may for all I know) make much sense: it's a "Living Design" Wharram.