Why do many designs fail to form products?

[sun]

Yes it takes many steps, time and money. What would you collaborate on? I mean, what are you bringing to the project besides your drowning experience? This may sound harsh, but developing a project is a practical endeavour. Marketable projects are not ideas, but technology that can be manufactured or somehow produced to sell. The belief that an idea is enough is what makes projects fail. In the 1970s there was a company selling pet rocks. It consisted of a small cardboard box with a small rock inside. Girls would adopt them, name them and carry the pet rock with them. That was an idea developed into a technology that could be mass produced, distributed and sold.



Personal experience can't be simply passed on. If the students don't understand the context of the application, they will fail to come up with a good product. For example, an electric car that I built as a proof of concept became a student project. One of the items the group had to design was a chain drive. The mounting bolts had no access for a wrench or other tool to tighten them. I told them that the sprocket had to allow for an off the shelf tool to tighten the mounting bolts. At the next meeting, they had not complied with a basic requirement. This is the lack of experience of the students with mechanical systems. When I asked them about it, they were surprised that it was the focus of my questions. They thought all the other surrounding ideas they had would make up for a design that couldn't be assembled properly. One of them asked me: "Did you really meant that it was the most important part of the design and therefore the grade?". I am not totally politically correct and forgot I was in a University setting. My answer was: **** yes!. They were shocked, but got a set of sprockets with access holes in them at the next meeting. I think they learned from my experience, but they still lacked the background to design a commercially viable electric car. There are student projects that have promise. Where they usually miss, is the market research and manufacturing process design.

I think I can get everyone together, around the existing rescue equipment intelligence is not strong problem, we increase the intelligence of the research. We have a lot of ideas, but the simple models we make always go wrong. For example, at the beginning of the small, later found that the center of gravity is too high, too much resistance and other problems. After lowering the resistance, I found it unsightly. Just wait. Sometimes, students feel that they should sit down according to their idea, but they do half, when it is difficult, they give up, and my chest hurts with anger.

 

[sun]

I've been in on some fairly simplistic work boat builds that were one off designs. The cost of a one off design was maybe 5% of the cost of the component cost list. From the call to the designer to a set of cut files was a couple of days, from the time the nested and cut aluminum showed up to a completed project was about 6 weeks with 2x skill workers pulling long days 6 days a week. That was on a fairly simple rather small vessel (17 feet long single diesel).

Reality is with modern 3d modeling software it's way easier to have an draw and idea than it is to weld, mold, or build the idea.

If I'm looking for a new boat, using an established and proven architect firm makes the most sense.

Passion projects are great, but they come out of the entertainment budget not the business side.

Looks like you'll make it. Hope to hear more.

 

[sun]

Clark's Corvair said in their 1970 parts catalogue that the reason that they didn't reproduce many car parts was that even a simple $10 part cost at least $10,000 dollars just to get the first good part made. $10,000 in 1970 is $80,000 today.

That old estimate was for a part that was just a copy of an existing part. No cost for design, which can be a major portion of the prototype cost. It has been my experience working on R&D and prototype projects since then is that their rough estimate was entirely plausible.

Students who fully use standard components will make mistakes, such as positioning accuracy, inconsistent application of force and torque,..... . It is a lack of basic mechanical knowledge.

 

[sun]

I'll give perhaps my most simplistic example.

I'm making a dingy, it's a one off design borne out of some unique circumstances. Physically I'd be a normal size football lineman, as such don't fit a lot of the old school solid glass dingy. Due the nature of hook and line fishing we've killed an inordinate amount inflatables. Decided to make a small light weight dingy that's scaled up to fit guys my size.

Ended up taking the bottom shape made popular from our shallow draft boats, the exterior styling of the popular dingy from our area and some features allowing it to accommodate myself and my overgrown crewman. (Namely a significantly beefier transom and more freeboard).

From sketch to computer drafting was maybe a couple of hrs, then another 30 minutes or so doing the balancing act to make sure it will trim.

I then had two choices, pay 250 dollars a square foot to have a mold cnc cut, or make it myself. Currently have more time in the sanding for a moderate level surface finish on the mold than it took to do all the design work. Add in building the jig, fairing the mold, laying up the hull, fabricating the seats, finishing and fairing the hull as well as paint and rail installation.

An off-season fisherman's wage is 0, and I've spread the cost of tools over years of paying projects so let's call that zero as well. Even so the cost in both real dollars as well has man hrs is at least 10:1 that of design cost.

End of the day it's a labor of love to make my own idea a reality, essentially a 6,000$ solution to an 1800$ problem. Hard enough to rationalize volunteering for my own ideas, let alone for someone else's wild idea.

Hard enough to rationalize volunteering for my own ideas, let alone for someone else's wild idea.
If you don't involve them personally, you can't train the students, you can't get them interested in the rescue work, you can't inspire them to want to go on and do it. Sometimes, it is possible to spend more money, but how to control the cost is really my problem.

 

[sun]

A quote from the business page on my website.
The major reason why many beginning boatbuilders fail, is they forget they are running a business!

Maybe I wasn't thinking clearly about what I was doing.

 

[sun]

It depends on what they love; some love fame, or money, and do what they can to take over a potentially profitable project that is someone else's idea. Some love a workable solution to a problem and strive to perfect it, for themselves, and even share it for no gain. Teams and collaborations bring together many attitudes, not always compatible, regardless of success or failure. It's a gamble who you work with, their inputs and skills, their foibles and discriminations. Like minded people may help, or want to go off on a tangent. Try a 'go fund me' site, to get money for professional assistance in your direction, ask a club if any are interested in the outcome, or have helpful inputs. Or scrimp and save and be innovative and do it all yourself until you have a product to be mass produced, then look for a way forward with a manufacturing partner. Idealism may get you started, but most likely lawyers will get you to the finish, if it is a big idea. They're not cheap, and neither are factories.

I also know that it is difficult to make a difference, but we should always do something. There is no end to the pursuit of fame and fortune. I hope I can find someone who can help me, I don't care about making money, or I don't believe I can make money, but I think what we do will definitely inspire others, maybe we can save one more person, and one less rescue team sacrifice.

Paradoxically, I'm not entirely indifferent to fame and fortune. Sometimes, I think I am not good at allocating my time and energy.

 

[seasquirt]

Maybe you could make a submission to organisations like the coast guard, beach life savers, sail training, school swimming education, even the military / navy, and they may be interested in assisting, advising, giving pointers, or other places to ask for help. Show a succession of changed ideas, and next generation prototypes, or even mock ups, to make your concepts obvious, so that someone else's imagination can run with it, and give you feedback. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so squeak up. I imagine a soft boogie board with rope loops on edges, electric powered small jet unit, flashing lights and epirb, remote control guided to a troubled swimmer; having no knowledge of your concept, or usage scenario.

I'm building a hat, - a special hat, but not high tech. How difficult and expensive can that be ? I've seen similar but inferior ones selling for over $200 US, and even the rubbish ones are quite expensive. I sketched ideas, and wrote lists of needs, and wants, and future possibilities on paper over months of deep thought. I looked for ways to make the basic shape of prototype 1 in a quick and easy way, and found a suitable shape which needed modification straight away. I made some basic extra form work and then produced the first fibre glass shape, then added to it. Needed some more parts and found a suitable donor item, modified and fitted it. First testing showed improvements needed. By then I had spent about 50 hours or more - unpaid, and used maybe $50 of materials. This is just a hat. To pay a professional to get this far would be maybe $3000 - $4000.
So then made improvements, and also added to the basic shape, and fitted a major accessory, another 10 hours work and $50 in off the shelf materials. Testing sequence No 2, and it needs more additions, so another 2 hours, and parts free (it pays to recycle). Testing sequence 3, fairly comprehensive testing in most conditions over many months, so another 20 hours working on it, taking notes, and another free part from my hoard. Professionally done maybe $6000 - $10,000 so far; I don't pay myself, so I'm cheap labour. It is a proven concept now, and ready to make a commercially acceptable version, requiring making a mold ready to produce prototype 2; started making mold 2 costing another $200 materials and 10 hours labour, for a very rough lump requiring cleaning, adding, shaping, polishing, and that's an easy part, with another required part being much more complicated. To then make Not a finished product, but a complete prototype for further testing, and manufacture / tooling design, and display to potential manufacturers, who may hate it, or steal it. Or I may do limited production runs myself from my own molds, which will take time and be more expensive per item. Not a huge market yet, but can be adapted to many uses, situations, and industries, if I can mass produce it before someone else does. Do all you can yourself, or with a small local team of trusted people if possible.

A note about getting others to do specialist work. A country has cheap labour, and tool rooms, and they can make your mold cheaper than anywhere else. Plastic injection, or metal pressings, or anything really. They make 2 or 3 molds / dies to your specification, test them, and sell you the worst acceptable one, but keep the best ones which they put into full production, to sell the produced items in countries away from you. When your local market is saturated, and you look for sales afar, the need has been largely satisfied already. Beware of industrial espionage.
I lost a good job due to the company's products being copied, exactly, even features from long obsolete fittings, and styles of internal machining marks. The R & D people could barely tell original and copy apart, besides different textures and colours of plastic.

 

[gonzo]

The most difficult is to understand the amount of time and failures that are necessary before reaching a final product. Product development is not linear. It is full of dead ends. However, each design that has defects narrows the field of designs that may work. On the other hand, some research efforts end up showing that the whole field is not worth pursuing.

 

[sun]

Maybe you could make a submission to organisations like the coast guard, beach life savers, sail training, school swimming education, even the military / navy, and they may be interested in assisting, advising, giving pointers, or other places to ask for help. Show a succession of changed ideas, and next generation prototypes, or even mock ups, to make your concepts obvious, so that someone else's imagination can run with it, and give you feedback. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so squeak up. I imagine a soft boogie board with rope loops on edges, electric powered small jet unit, flashing lights and epirb, remote control guided to a troubled swimmer; having no knowledge of your concept, or usage scenario.

I'm building a hat, - a special hat, but not high tech. How difficult and expensive can that be ? I've seen similar but inferior ones selling for over $200 US, and even the rubbish ones are quite expensive. I sketched ideas, and wrote lists of needs, and wants, and future possibilities on paper over months of deep thought. I looked for ways to make the basic shape of prototype 1 in a quick and easy way, and found a suitable shape which needed modification straight away. I made some basic extra form work and then produced the first fibre glass shape, then added to it. Needed some more parts and found a suitable donor item, modified and fitted it. First testing showed improvements needed. By then I had spent about 50 hours or more - unpaid, and used maybe $50 of materials. This is just a hat. To pay a professional to get this far would be maybe $3000 - $4000.
So then made improvements, and also added to the basic shape, and fitted a major accessory, another 10 hours work and $50 in off the shelf materials. Testing sequence No 2, and it needs more additions, so another 2 hours, and parts free (it pays to recycle). Testing sequence 3, fairly comprehensive testing in most conditions over many months, so another 20 hours working on it, taking notes, and another free part from my hoard. Professionally done maybe $6000 - $10,000 so far; I don't pay myself, so I'm cheap labour. It is a proven concept now, and ready to make a commercially acceptable version, requiring making a mold ready to produce prototype 2; started making mold 2 costing another $200 materials and 10 hours labour, for a very rough lump requiring cleaning, adding, shaping, polishing, and that's an easy part, with another required part being much more complicated. To then make Not a finished product, but a complete prototype for further testing, and manufacture / tooling design, and display to potential manufacturers, who may hate it, or steal it. Or I may do limited production runs myself from my own molds, which will take time and be more expensive per item. Not a huge market yet, but can be adapted to many uses, situations, and industries, if I can mass produce it before someone else does. Do all you can yourself, or with a small local team of trusted people if possible.

A note about getting others to do specialist work. A country has cheap labour, and tool rooms, and they can make your mold cheaper than anywhere else. Plastic injection, or metal pressings, or anything really. They make 2 or 3 molds / dies to your specification, test them, and sell you the worst acceptable one, but keep the best ones which they put into full production, to sell the produced items in countries away from you. When your local market is saturated, and you look for sales afar, the need has been largely satisfied already. Beware of industrial espionage.
I lost a good job due to the company's products being copied, exactly, even features from long obsolete fittings, and styles of internal machining marks. The R & D people could barely tell original and copy apart, besides different textures and colours of plastic.

I admire your persistence and efforts! I wish you early success and good business activities. I feel that most of the rescue tools in the world imitate Emily and Usafe, which has hindered innovation in this field and is limited to improving rescue efficiency, and this field needs revolution. I think there is a need for flexible, smart, fast equipment for rescue work, or prevention work. I do have too little contact with social organizations, not much, and should take the initiative to contact them.
Product plagiarism is despicable behavior, we should resist together, you can apply for the target country patent, generally not expensive, find a patent filing company assistance should be easier, do not need you to provide a standard template.
Is payback for parts common in your area? This business is very interesting, which age group is usually more involved?

 

[sun]

The most difficult is to understand the amount of time and failures that are necessary before reaching a final product. Product development is not linear. It is full of dead ends. However, each design that has defects narrows the field of designs that may work. On the other hand, some research efforts end up showing that the whole field is not worth pursuing.

Yes, it is normal for the product development process to hit a wall everywhere, which requires persistence and effort. Sometimes, I suddenly find that the good thing I have been thinking about for months is not worth it, there is no need to study it. But it also makes me happy. Otherwise, what, do something to pass the time? Continuous innovation and practice, let me feel that life is meaningful, can reflect their own value, there is joy, there will be melancholy, but I have never regretted.

 

[sun]

The drone seems to be fast, but with a little wind and waves, it is difficult for the drowning person to grasp the life buoy.

 

[seasquirt]

Since my idea is a one off so far, I purchase parts myself, from local suppliers, looking for components common to many similar brands, so no 'specialist' parts used. My idea is for all ages, so I will need to manufacture 2 or 3 different sizes of hat, with adjustable parts for children, and people with large heads, but concentrating on my size for now. Invention has no preferential age, except for self finance, and learned skills to apply to creation.
Your picture makes me think: a disabled drone could become a danger to the person in difficulty if it falls on them; the buoy would need to be dropped up wind of them, to blow / drift into them; possibly long strings attached could be deployed, by water dissolving their containment, (maybe not so good in rain); a motive force to self seek the person with heat seeking or noise seeking sensors guiding it; Use an on board drone camera to guide the drone to very near the person, but not drop the buoy directly on them, since they can be hard and heavy enough to injure; possibly use a self inflating buoy with a gas canister, so the drone is less affected by adverse winds and can fly faster. It's a good idea though, and worthy of development. I can see it saving lives in the right circumstances. Good luck with it; I'm sure some organisation would be interested in partnering for development. Try a 'Go Fund Me' site, and I think you would get substantial donations, since drownings are a terrible thing, and all too common.

 

[comfisherman]

I got to fish some folks out of the water almost exactly a year ago, surprised how easily rough weather tore up survival gear. Might need a fair bit less when in calmer seas, I'll say this after yarding half drown and frozen people from the water my saftey gear got way more specific and beefy. Tough to test that stuff until the adrenaline is pumping, even in my line of work it took 20 plus years to see a real world scenario.

 

[portacruise]

View attachment 199901
The drone seems to be fast, but with a little wind and waves, it is difficult for the drowning person to grasp the life buoy.

Would that ring help much if somebody is already wearing a PFD, and hypothermia is a big consideration? Maybe the Drone could drop a fast tiny model boat or torpedo that finds the victim and inflates to a mini life raft when the victim touches or activates it? Otherwise a much bigger drone can be used to fish somebody out quickly, although high winds can be an issue for any drone survival? But, some drownings come from Involuntary instant shock hypothermia which can occur in under a very few minutes, nothing much can be done for them.. Just some quick thoughts that came to me, hope this helps!

 

[gonzo]

The USCG tested the reaction of people in cold water to rescue efforts. It showed that they did not grab a life ring or line thrown at them when hypothermia set in. The brain will not function properly. In those cases swimmers are the best solution.