The AWLGRIP Knowledge challenge

[the1much]

the first coat is called a "tack" coat jus for the reason as jimbo says,,,but i dont agree with the "waiting" too long is better then not long enough. if you wait too long you get "bumps" under your second and third coat,,they jus get bigger and bigger. and thats because even if you try to get the tack coat even,,theres still spaces wheres theres paint and spaces theres none.on the tack coat (on a 50 footer) start wherever you start and by the time you get back to the starting point and mix some more paint,,its time to put on your first REAL coat.
and "sags" are easier to fix then ya boat having goosebumps

 

[the1much]

heres an easy one,,,,,if its your first time,,,its not bad to do the job up to 5 coats,,THIN COATS..be patient,,have 2 cigs,,a cup of coffee,,"fumes", then 2 more cigs,,between coats. and dont worry bout sags,,dust,,or a piece of your hair. repairing ANY of those probs jus takes some tape and sandpaper and a little bit of buffing. and roll and tipping ( slow paint'n heh ) time between coats is like WAY longer,,kapt jer is the one to ask bout that,,he's like REAL slow

 

[Jimbo1490]

Yes, the first coat must go on evenly to avoid problems on subsequent coats. And the 're-coat clock' starts ticking when the trigger is first pulled so if it takes 30 minutes to apply one coat of paint to your project, then the paint at the starting point is going to be 30 minutes old when you finish applying the first coat, meaning it might be time to start the second coat as soon as you've finished the first.

This also illustrates why it is important to keep track of the order or sequence that you used on the first coat and use that same sequence for subsequent coats. This in turn illustrates why it's important to THINK about the 'shoot sequence' BEFORE applying the first coat to deduce the BEST shooting sequence before you start, because once you've started, you are locked in to that sequence.

Waiting too long between coats will produce excessive orange peel but waiting too short leads to disastrous runs and sags. I'd pick the former before the latter any day!

I've actually painted on that very airport that is allegedly depositing 'contaminants' from the sky without incident many, many times, both indoors and out. Don't look up for your contaminant problems; neither look down to the ground for your dust problems as dust does not jump up off the ground and get on your paint. Dust falls down. Contaminants come mostly from the project itself or rags or even we the workers. Do you use Armor-All or Clearguard or the like in your car? Even on the steering wheel? Then drive to the job and work on a project depositing silicones all over the place with your contaminated hands?

 

[the1much]

k,,first,,jet fuel in the air does fall and does contaminate your boat,
second,,dust on your floor WILL fly up EVERY step you take,, and once disturbed it will float around and on your boat,,unless of course there is absolutly no air movement in the shop, or outside. thus no air movement bring the overspray issue to hand,dust comes from everywhere.
third,, go to a shop just before ya paint,,after all prep is done,,back ya car in the bay and let it run for 5 minutes,,then shoot the paint,,then tell me theres no fish eyes from being contaminated.
last,,,,ANYONE that puts armor all on their steering wheel should be arrested
haha

 

[Jimbo1490]

Some of the finest, most dust free jobs I ever shot were outdoors on an open ramp (tarmac) with a light breeze. We were at least a 1/4 mile from any grass or open ground, just pavement all around at least 1/4 mile (airports are like that).

Jet fuel is just kerosene. Nothing more. We paint airplane wings all the time that have leaks on the bottom. Except for the inch or so right around the leak, they cause no fisheyes whatsoever. There's nothing in jet fuel but kerosene. You really need to look for less esoteric sources of fisheyes than various engine exhausts. Perhaps you will then discover the real cause and solution.


Walking around the shop produces very little dust uplift. But then everyone blows off the dust before they shoot with with high pressure air guns. Now THAT gets lots of dust aloft. It will take hours for all that dust to settle. And guess where it's going to settle I've shot hundreds of jobs with the wet floor and hundreds with a dry floor. There's just no discernable difference in the dust settled onto the paint between the two. Then I went and pressure washed the entire superstructure holding up the roof in the building. Got rid of all the cobwebs and POUNDS of dirt. You can bet that made a big difference! Look up for your dust sources!



Jimbo

 

[Kaptin-Jer]

"Come on now Jerry. We all know things can go wrong.
But things can also go really well too!!!!

Absolutely!! I do not use anything else but Awl Grip. My point is that if you know all the pitfalls you (with the help of the paint gods) can avoid them and get the finish that we all want. You guys go on with your spraying advise, I'll keep trying to help the real amateurs (like me) that roll and tip, but want the same finish in less time, less environmental harm, less harm to ones body, and with only the cost of a good brush and a package of hot dog rollers. OOPs sorry Jim I went off again. I promised not to do that anymore.

 

[Kaptin-Jer]

Jimbo, I don't know what is coming off those planes, but when my boat is in the water I get a black scum on the deck that I have to scrub at least once a week . Now that I'm painting I am sure that SOMETHING is falling. I can see the faces of the pilots as they land right over my boat. I'm sure that they can see the sign I'm giving them, too.

That brings me to a question. I just spent 9 hours, 75 sanding disks, and the loss of feeling in both shoulders prepping the hull for a fourth coat. I will not be able to put paint on until next Saturday, Do you guys think Alcohol alone will clean the surface. I was contemplating going stronger maybe Acetone or even MEK. I have used both before with some success. Any thoughts?

 

[the1much]

start a kerosene heater inside a white shop,,how many days before the walls are black?,,,,bout 2 weeks,,now use diesel fuel, which is kerosene 1 step backwards,(ie what kerosene is made from,,then another step to oil) now diesel only takes bout 3 days..stick to planes.
and ANYONE that thinks that blowing off your "area" causes dust they cant think very well,,the cause of the dust would be from sanding, which no matter how you sand,air,or hand, causes air movement which will ALWAYS make dust move. dragging your hoses causes movement of dust,and just because you dont have an EYE for a PERFECT job that is expected from owners of yachts and owners of a tub thats all theirs,,doesnt mean the dust from your "termac" job isnt there.unless of course you live in one of those dust free towns. but dont believe me,,call up your local airport terminal and ask them
im pretty sure their answer is gonna be " yes there is "fallout" from our jets, but its under federal threshold guidelines sir"
then they'll probably laugh really hard like me saying,,,man,,has that dude ever looked up and seen the smoke come out of these planes when they take off?
kapt.,,i always make sure i dont sand unless i know i can shoot within 24 hours,,but i remember ,,,,um,,,,,once heh,, it was longer, and i jus washed with water and rag,, then denatured. you can even use "pre wash",, it should be jus fine,,unless you can see a prob after the wash,,then you might as well not waste ya alcohol ,,or your denatured and sand again
and jimbo,,i'm REALLY not trying to be an a**hole,,and there is VERY few things i say i KNOW,,even when it comes to boats heh but i KNOW about dust and contaminants from planes. you can even call morris yachts in southwest harbor maine,, they bought able marines yard across that airport,,theres guys there that have been there over 30 years, so they should be able to tell ya

 

[Kaptin-Jer]

Thanks Jim,
I left the dust on the boat that should help protect it (ya right). We'll keep our fingers crossed, but thats what happens when you are a week-end warrior.

 

[Kaptin-Jer]

O.K. back to the real issues of this thread.

When you roll you must use a foam roller, smaller is better. A 4" white foam hot dog size is the best. Tip with a china bristle brush , 2" wide - I have done everything from an 8' dingy to a 38' Beneteau using those sizes. Do not let paint build up on the brush. Roll an area only about 12" wide from sheer to water line, then tip in that same direction.

It might take 3 coats before you find the correct reducer level. I have used as little as 20% in hot weather with white paint. To close to 40% in 70 degrees painting Flag Blue.

I follow the same sanding and number of coats as I do with varnish. When the varnish sands pure white with no shinny spots I know I have enough coats on except for the top coat. I follow the same rule but I try to keep the Awl grip under 5 coats (thats all I usually can afford)

 

[Jimbo1490]

the1much,

I thought we were talking about things that pick dust up off of the shop floor not the ROOT sources of dust Obviously sanding is a root source of dust in a paint prep area. But once the dust is on the floor, walking around on it (assuming you are not then walking on top of your project ) is not going to loft much dust into the air to settle back on your project later(For that, you need an air blow gun )

Jerr, if you are near Ft Lauderdale Int'l, (which is where I think you stated you are), isn't it likely that either the 8 lanes of interstate 95 with its 100,000 + cars per day traffic or the SR 84/I-595 interchange (nearly the world's largest highway interchange) or US 1 with similar traffic numbers is likely the source of your mystery black dust? Those roads flank FTL on three sides so if you are close enough to see the white of the pilot's eyes, then I'm guessing you are near Ravenswood Rd, which puts you just west of FTL and I-95. The prevailing wind is east, BTW.

I've worked and painted on airports almost 20 years and have not noticed any unusual fallout I could attribute to aircraft traffic. You guys really need to look as less exotic sources for your problems.

Jerr, after years of doing it 'that way', I have concluded that I am not a fan of strong solvent wiping in most cases. Since you already know this substrate (you put it there) and you know it has never been waxed (especially with silicone wax) then of what value is strong solvent wiping? You are better off with washing with a mild detergent and water and rinsing. Look for water breaks in the rinse water since they indicate either unsanded or contaminated areas. You want to see the water sheet out nice and smooth with no breaks in the water film. The washing will remove all dust. Then just tack and paint.

Jimbo

 

[Kaptin-Jer]

Right on Jimbo,
I am in the middle of all that stuff and I'm sure it all contributes, but this is the only DIY yard in south Fl. I can't even step a mast here because I have to go out under '95. Can't wait to get this boat done then I'm moving up closer to you - Melbourne area - two more years---

 

[the1much]

any time jerry
another contaminate people dont think about is your sander,,people oil em like they suppose too,,and thats a BIG no-no. never EVER oil your air tools that ya use on ya boat.

 

[TeddyDiver]

never EVER oil your air tools that ya use on ya boat.

A good reason to use cheap compressor (Chinese presumably, no oil inside) so need no oil separator either..

 

[Jimbo1490]

Yeah, oil from sanders can definitely be a problem, especially if you tend to get carried away, putting ten drops instead of 2-5 like you should. I switched to Dynabrade sanders years ago just because they are 'dry' air tools that never need oil. But now it looks like they might discontinue that line (Supreme) in favor of the cheaper 'Spirit' line so I guess I'll be rebuilding mine from now on.

Also I've seen several times where a particular air hose gets contaminated with oil from a worn compressor or even being hooked up to a system with one of those confounded oilers. The whole inside of the hose gets covered with oil. It becomes a gift that keeps on giving

It's a good idea to have spray hoses that never get used for anything else. What's a 50' hose cost? $20 maybe? And a coat of Awl Grip? From $300 to $3000 or more, depending how big a project you're working. Separate paint spray hoses are a good investment.


Jimbo