PAR
Yacht Designer/Builder
Which cypress? Most of these (nearly all) are just too soft.
The Boat Design & Boatbuilding Site
Substitute for teak
- Thread starter Steve W
- Start date
Steve W
Senior Member
Par, I think i mentioned that the boat owners business is lumber recycling, by this i mean that they resaw large beams from old industrial buildings into high priced architectural flooring etc, the vg doug fir is very tight grained absolutely gorgeous stuff, i would use it in a heartbeat if he would let me. Where does one buy pitch pine in the US?
Tad, Ishpingo sounds very promising.
Steve.
Tad, Ishpingo sounds very promising.
Steve.
PAR
Yacht Designer/Builder
Why doesn't he want you to use the old growth stuff? Seems self defeating to a reseller if you ask me. Douglas fir has a nasty tendency to "washboard" if sanded or hard scrubbed. The density difference between winter and summer growth is significant, which is the cause of this issue. Old growth is less prone than the stuff we see now, but it still happens.
Pitch pine is common in the north east, so might no be as available to you. It's often mixed in with stuff they call SYP. It's lighter in color and has a stronger odor then SYP.
Pitch pine
SYP
The way I tell is the color of the heartwood which is much more pinkish brown than redish brown like that is SYP.
Lodgepole is more likely the stuff you'll see more of. It's fairly easy to identify next to SYP, as the heartwood is light and blends into the sapwood a bit and can also appears to have dimples or seemingly flat spots on slash cut (flat sawn) stock.
Lodgepole pine, note the almost airbrushed division between grain lines.
Pitch pine is common in the north east, so might no be as available to you. It's often mixed in with stuff they call SYP. It's lighter in color and has a stronger odor then SYP.
Pitch pine
SYP
The way I tell is the color of the heartwood which is much more pinkish brown than redish brown like that is SYP.
Lodgepole is more likely the stuff you'll see more of. It's fairly easy to identify next to SYP, as the heartwood is light and blends into the sapwood a bit and can also appears to have dimples or seemingly flat spots on slash cut (flat sawn) stock.
Lodgepole pine, note the almost airbrushed division between grain lines.
Yobarnacle
Senior Member holding true course
years ago use to buy white pine in clear grades for sawn frames in dinghys. easy carved. don't know what species and not a substitute for teak
PAR
Yacht Designer/Builder
I can still get that white pine (usually it's a spruce), though getting it clear is much harder. Good spar stock and light framing, but soft and too light for decking, as you say. I have 14' 10/4's live edge piece here, I'm looking to make into something soon. Dead nuts clear and straight grain, which you can hardly see.
Steve W
Senior Member
Yeah, I've never asked why he doesn't want to use the fir but I suspect its the same reason i would never do a boat interior for myself in teak, familiarity, it is so common that im so over the teak cave, it looks cheap to me,(even though its not) and of course dark. The washboarding problem is of course also one of the reasons why i have replaced quite a few teak decks over the years, what i referred to earlier as maintaining them to death. My last teak deck job was on a Cherubini 44, the decks had started out at about 1/2" teak, glued and screwed down to the 3/4" plywood sub deck with epoxy using a rabetted edge for the caulk seam so in effect you really only have to wear, scrub,sand it away less than 1/4" before the plugs and caulk are falling out and allowing moisture down into the sub deck which is exactly what happened (needless to say it was a ***** to remove.) If any of these junglewoods were useable ie, didn't check you would want to go thinner due to the weight and use full depth seams and no fasteners but the benefit is they are so hard you could probably pressure it. Im not so sure how well the caulk would adhere though. A friend did a very small ipe sole on his center cockpit Dawson 26 a few years back under my direction and it worked out well with the exception of some checking. We cut a piece of particle board to the shape we wanted, laid up a few layers of 1708 with polyester resin and then glued up the ipe about 3/16" thick with no fasteners and payed the seams with epoxy/graphite. My son then took it to work and put it through the wide belt sander, then flipped it and sanded off the particle board to the glass, it was then glued down to become the new top skin after recoring the sole so he got a sexy looking sole and didn't need to do any cosmetic repair after the recoring. Its been about 5 years now and the only issue has been the wood checking.
Steve.
Steve.
Yobarnacle
Senior Member holding true course
Teak and holly makes an elegant contrast. I have a few pieces, used as steps down entering aft cabin, and the holly is 1/8 inch proud of the teak. A deliberate washboarding? Good elegant nonskid.
Is there tropical woods resembling holly? Holly is certainly hard enough and nearly white in color. If holly weren't so ridiculously expensive, a laid up deck like traditional teak and holly but reversed, could be attractive. Using the white hard wood for the wide planks separated by darker strips of another wood.
Is there tropical woods resembling holly? Holly is certainly hard enough and nearly white in color. If holly weren't so ridiculously expensive, a laid up deck like traditional teak and holly but reversed, could be attractive. Using the white hard wood for the wide planks separated by darker strips of another wood.
SukiSolo
Senior Member
Yet to see a Holly tree much over about a foot diameter with enough straight growth to make long planks..... at least here in the UK. It is the only timber I've used that will stay pretty white, even with UV. Faberge used it for their jewelry boxes partly for that reason. Possibly Hornbeam, but that's used more for gear teeth and stuff like that.
Holly is odd stuff, possibly the only wood with a cold touch, that I have ever worked. Finishes brilliantly with a cabinet scraper.
I'll try and find out what got used for some platforms and walkways, to replace some earlier timber structure over water. It seems to be lasting well, and is African and not Iroko. Rather pungent smell when newly cut though, neither nice or horrible.
Holly is odd stuff, possibly the only wood with a cold touch, that I have ever worked. Finishes brilliantly with a cabinet scraper.
I'll try and find out what got used for some platforms and walkways, to replace some earlier timber structure over water. It seems to be lasting well, and is African and not Iroko. Rather pungent smell when newly cut though, neither nice or horrible.
Yobarnacle
Senior Member holding true course
Pungent woods are often rot resistant and insect repelling. But most are soft woods, like camphor and cedar and cypress and eucalyptus. The wood you describe, interested to know it's name and qualities.
As to teak substitute, how about BOCOTE. Half as hard as lignum vitae but twice as hard as teak, and less than half teaks price. It's been used for boat decks.
http://www.hardwoodemporium.com/Products-Bocote.html JANKA HARDNESS: 2200
http://www.hardwoodemporium.com/Products-Teak_Burma.html JANKA HARDNESS: 1050
Lignum Vitae has JANKA HARDNESS: 4500
another possibility
Balau Batu
Named "stone wood" for a reason. Like a dark mahogany in hue this wood is extremely durable. Used for boardwalks, bridges, wharves, and decking. Very resistant to decay, insects, and fungal attack. Even in tropical environment. Resistant to abrasions, wear, and dents. Naturally fire resistant.
http://www.westwindhardwood.com/products/fine-woods/hardwoods-AB.php
better price at http://www.stonewoodstore.com/ProductID1816
As to teak substitute, how about BOCOTE. Half as hard as lignum vitae but twice as hard as teak, and less than half teaks price. It's been used for boat decks.
http://www.hardwoodemporium.com/Products-Bocote.html JANKA HARDNESS: 2200
http://www.hardwoodemporium.com/Products-Teak_Burma.html JANKA HARDNESS: 1050
Lignum Vitae has JANKA HARDNESS: 4500
another possibility
Balau Batu
Named "stone wood" for a reason. Like a dark mahogany in hue this wood is extremely durable. Used for boardwalks, bridges, wharves, and decking. Very resistant to decay, insects, and fungal attack. Even in tropical environment. Resistant to abrasions, wear, and dents. Naturally fire resistant.
http://www.westwindhardwood.com/products/fine-woods/hardwoods-AB.php
better price at http://www.stonewoodstore.com/ProductID1816
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sdowney717
Senior Member
I used Cumaru on the bottom of the keel as a worm shoe.
I also glued 3 smaller width pieces into a wider plank using PL Premium polyurethane and it has held up fine screwed onto the keel bottom without splitting or opening a glue line. I used a steel brush on the wood edges to be glued, but mostly just to get out any sawdust. I did not use any solvents acetone etc... I think plain dish soap - scrunge and water wash would be fine.
I have not noticed any checking- splitting at all. Drilling holes you need a very sharp brill bit. Cumaru can tear out - splinter. Some screw holes did that.
I also glued 3 smaller width pieces into a wider plank using PL Premium polyurethane and it has held up fine screwed onto the keel bottom without splitting or opening a glue line. I used a steel brush on the wood edges to be glued, but mostly just to get out any sawdust. I did not use any solvents acetone etc... I think plain dish soap - scrunge and water wash would be fine.
I have not noticed any checking- splitting at all. Drilling holes you need a very sharp brill bit. Cumaru can tear out - splinter. Some screw holes did that.
Hank Rosendal
not old enough for some things, too old for others
Re: Batu
Indeed it is rockhard. Although I never used it on a boat, but for poles (6x6) into the beach for stringing volleyball nets to. We had 6 courts (12 poles) on the beach in the sand for 15 plus years, summer and winter. Never a problem with the timber, above the ground or in the sand. The wood was never treated, except for a cheap waterbased paint every few years. I believe the same poles are still there that would make them now 20 years old. (Bunbury WA)
Indeed it is rockhard. Although I never used it on a boat, but for poles (6x6) into the beach for stringing volleyball nets to. We had 6 courts (12 poles) on the beach in the sand for 15 plus years, summer and winter. Never a problem with the timber, above the ground or in the sand. The wood was never treated, except for a cheap waterbased paint every few years. I believe the same poles are still there that would make them now 20 years old. (Bunbury WA)
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