Designing with different parts of the brain

[Leo Lazauskas]

Beauty is measurable to some degree, look up the golden ratio. Is everywhere in nature.

Sorry, but you shouldn't perpetuate that golden ratio claptrap.
See, as a start:
http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/mythbusting-golden-mean-part-1.html

 

[rxcomposite]

Most of us are doing it every day anyways on our own we just don't notice. Just being on this forum throwing ideas around is doing it. Cumulative deliberate practice.

Beauty is measurable to some degree, look up the golden ratio. Is everywhere in nature. Hence when you learn all this, you become a good designer by applying these tools.

I can agree to a certain extent except the golden ratio. It is just one of the tools. There is an innate engineer in all of us. We see things "the correct way, the way it is made". It is an instinct.

When I grew tired of drawing stick man, I was guided by the book of Andrew Loomis. First there is proportions, then the skeletal system, then the muscular system. The "engineering side" of it it. How it is built, how it is supposed to function. How it is supposed to be right. It is the engineer who makes sure it will function properly as intended hence the engineers axiom "Has it been done before, can it be improved?".

Then the balancing of mass (physics), light and shadow balance, color harmony, and texture. You cannot present a wood bark as a shiny metal object as it is not nature has intended. The mind will tell you unconciously something is not right.

 

[maxxxlogan]

Sorry, but you shouldn't perpetuate that golden ratio claptrap.
See, as a start:
http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/mythbusting-golden-mean-part-1.html

Look it is difficult to be myth busted, because it is everywhere in nature. So Phi, just like Pi is a tool used in combination. Having said that, it is not the only rule. You can extrapolate all sorts of ratios from a form. That is so wrong to do, what you need to do is apply the ratio in a design deliberately and the appealing from will be close/approximation to/of the ratio relationship. These are not perpetual motion ideas here, is just a relationship for a certain form, nothing more. Other forms have different ratios, some are appealing and others not.

Again, it is one tool of many........

There are forms, patterns and ratios that are appealing to us. Just as a baby or a young animal is cute to us so they would not be abandoned, these are natural things of beauty for a reason. They appeal on a subconscious level, as do certain shapes like the feminine curvy form. So designing a car with curves that resemble a woman's body will always appeal to us over a straight lined form. Can't fight nature, sorry fellas.

EDIT: Ok i see, the myths is actually the supposed application of the golden ratio in the design of the Parthenon. Sure I agree if the evidence supports it. Is just a tool in the end, no holy grail. Nothing more nothing less. We move on.

 

[maxxxlogan]

There is an innate engineer in all of us. We see things "the correct way, the way it is made". It is an instinct.

Then the balancing of mass (physics), light and shadow balance, color harmony, and texture. You cannot present a wood bark as a shiny metal object as it is not nature has intended. The mind will tell you unconciously something is not right.

Spot on.....

In design we subconsciously mimic nature and our environment....

 

[Leo Lazauskas]

Look it is difficult to be myth busted, because it is everywhere in nature. So Phi, just like Pi is a tool used in combination. Having said that, it is not the only rule. You can extrapolate all sorts of ratios from a form. That is so wrong to do, what you need to do is apply the ratio in a design deliberately and the appealing from will be close/approximation to/of the ratio relationship. These are not perpetual motion ideas here, is just a relationship for a certain form, nothing more. Other forms have different ratios, some are appealing and others not.

Again, it is one tool of many........

There are forms, patterns and ratios that are appealing to us. Just as a baby or a young animal is cute to us so they would not be abandoned, these are natural things of beauty for a reason. They appeal on a subconscious level, as do certain shapes like the feminine curvy form. So designing a car with curves that resemble a woman's body will always appeal to us over a straight lined form. Can't fight nature, sorry fellas.

EDIT: Ok i see, the myths is actually the supposed application of the golden ratio in the design of the Parthenon. Sure I agree if the evidence supports it. Is just a tool in the end, no holy grail. Nothing more nothing less. We move on.

There are very good reasons why the golden ratio bobs up in nature, mostly
through the Fibonacci numbers (1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,...). The ratio of two
consecutive Fibonacci numbers (e.g. 13/8, 21/34, 34/21, ...) approaches the
golden ratio as the numbers increase.

There are many people who try to shoe-horn the proportions of objects
(man-made and natural) into a form where they appear to be the same as
the golden ratio. You might as well say that 42 has some form of magical
properties because it is the answer to the ultimate question in a sci-fi novel.

So, yes, let's move on, slowly, the way glass flows perhaps?

Leo.

 

[daiquiri]

For some reason, it is in our human nature to seek a hiding place from the apparent chaos which governs the world around us. Some find this place in religion, some in drugs, others in rational derivation of mathematical rules which presumably the nature is based on. The golden ratio is one of them. But beauty is not something one can define through mathematical or geometrical rules. Otherwise any gas heater with wall sides sized to golden ratio rule would be an object of beauty.
It remainds me of all the news about those wacky scientists who periodically re-discover some mathematical formula for a perfect woman, a perfect man, perfect face and similar stuff...

 

[gonzo]

I think that there is a different process to draw a hull or a woman with a pencil or a program that gives you a generic shape you will stretch. I start with a profile or a plan view and work from there. I see all these amateur (and some professionals) who hardly depart from the hullform the program starts with. Even with a line, it starts straight and then gets curved. A batten or a free hand line may start as a curve. Seems like there are differences in the technique and perception which is not clear if it affects the outcome. I believe it does for me.

 

[maxxxlogan]

Gonzo I understand what you mean. But surely you have a concept, idea of what you are about to draw. You don't use the PC to design the form you are after, you already know what you are about to draw. How many design iterations do you go through?

The design process can't be narrowed down to one single method. If I've done something similar in the past I go straight to the PC, or reference my visual diary. However if i'm trying to explore the boundaries or conceptualize then come out the Artline Drawing System pen set and a visual diary. Is exactly that, a culmination of hand sketches of all sorts of things. We are all different I know, but you need to get out of your comfort zone if you want to broaden your skill set. So I suggest on that note try doing it with a method you don't like, you never know.

So design can't narrowed down to left or right brain dominance, as depending on what you are designing and the most efficient means of getting there.
Hell if I need to make some shelving in the garage, is still design, I will not power up the PC. I can improvise on the fly as I'm making it. So which side of the grey matter is firing don't matter. Deliberate practice, practice, practice when it comes to anything you would like to be good at, is a must.

 

[assycat]

I think that there is a different process to draw a hull or a woman with a pencil or a program that gives you a generic shape you will stretch. I start with a profile or a plan view and work from there. I see all these amateur (and some professionals) who hardly depart from the hullform the program starts with. Even with a line, it starts straight and then gets curved. A batten or a free hand line may start as a curve. Seems like there are differences in the technique and perception which is not clear if it affects the outcome. I believe it does for me.

Hmmm I like my women like I like my musical instruments- responsive-loud, and with high action!(yes -thats mine...)

I bet a lot of people dont know that the cello and guitar violin etc- are modelled after the hourglass shape of a woman?..now THATS beauty!. I confess- woman and boats r my biggest weakness...
Now- Is it possible to design a womanly shaped boat? hmm big transom- narrowing -amidships-, then full at the bow? deep forefoot..

that would be one ugly-assed boat!
the thing I dont like about rhino is it seems less intuitive.?

 

[maxxxlogan]

the thing I dont like about rhino is it seems less intuitive.?

Hmmmm....I found that to be the case also. Got over it...hehehe

 

[daiquiri]

I bet a lot of people dont know that the cello and guitar violin etc- are modelled after the hourglass shape of a woman?

Traditional tales want it that way, and I do believe it is a true story, but curiously even acoustics proved those ancient instrument-makers right. The guitar bridge position and the soundboard shape are perfectly matched to give the best and loudest sound for a given body volume. Besides that, the shape is also dictated by the considerations on ergonomics.

Now- Is it possible to design a womanly shaped boat? hmm big transom- narrowing -amidships-, then full at the bow? deep forefoot..

Yeah, and two bulbous bows in front...

 

[DCockey]

.....
the thing I dont like about rhino is it seems less intuitive.?

Hmmmm....I found that to be the case also. Got over it...hehehe

Did either of you use other CAD software before Rhino?

 

[maxxxlogan]

Did either of you use other CAD software before Rhino?

Yeah, I'm a long time SolidWorks user, that's why Rhino sucked at the start. I have used Rhino heaps for reverse engineering with the FARO arm, so had to learn how to model with it quite well to make good use of the CMM.
However it helped heaps that I was already quiet good at surface modeling with SW.

 

[claydog]

Most people can appreciate a beautiful line or design, whether is a house, car or boat. However, few can design it. It is not possible to point at just one thing and say: that makes this beautiful. A good design is harmonious from every angle. A well designed boat will look good whether it is at the dock and the deck is at eye level, you are looking from above or the boat is heeling, etc.

I agree completely.

I suppose some folks adapt better than others. The trouble I have when trying to design on a computer is the divider points keep messing up the screen and eraser crumbs clog the keyboard.

LMAO, In the early days of using Alias softwere for car design, I've had exec designers lay tape lines on my computer screen.

 

[maxxxlogan]

LMAO, In the early days of using Alias softwere for car design, I've had exec designers lay tape lines on my computer screen.

Ohhh.....that is gold...