Another folding cat thread :)

[guzzis3]

Are you not able to tow a 15-16ft wide boat 2km to the water? You say you live in a quiet area and the slip isn't used much. It would be much easier/cheaper/more suiting your SOR to have a full bridgedeck cabinned boat. You could maybe put the boat on an angled trailer, see the 35ft Flica below

I do know there is a wide load permit available now in aus for trailering boats. I'm not clear on the details but Mr Waller has designed a 25' cat specifically for it. I believe the limit is 3.5 meters. Beyond that you need an escort etc.

A bigger Sango would not be trailerable, but would be something like my Saturn

That's a shame. I thought you might get the extra beam with a higher trailer and letting the hulls dangle down more.

My wife and I have slept in the aft cabin of a F32 in the rain. Its a coffin and no sensible access to the main cabin except by going outside

The only bridgedeck cabinned demountable catamaran that I know of was the Beneteau 34. An awful boat. See the second boat down for more

http://multihullcentre.co.uk/catamaran-s.html

Richard Woods

I had thought that about the tri. The blue 2. Hm. I've seen them come up for sale occasionally. I believe the designer was mainly a mono specialist. Awful hull shape. Messy construction. I'd thought they must be an awful boat just looking at it.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'll look into the wide load regulations. As you say tilting might be an option. I've got 15' height to play with in the normal envelope.

 

[guzzis3]

outside the box :

Don't give up on your ideas guzzi. Have a look at this listen to what Richard is advising he has done more than most have dreamed from their arm chairs and who knows one day the solution will be found.
http://www.offshorecats.com/offshore38demountable.html

Thank you for that. I think the components are too wide for normal transport. It looks like that's meant as a one off demountable ?

I am grateful for all the comments, please bear with me as I try to keep my responses rational so we can all follow the discussion. I'm not sure I always succeed in that.

 

[Richard Woods]

Even with a police escort it still might be an option. But how long will it take you to drive 2km. How long will it take for the police arrive?

Richard Woods

 

[guzzis3]

You don't normally use the police. Here in brisbane we have a lot of old weatherboard houses, quite ornate and much sought after. They are cryptically named "queenslanders". Anyway they get moved about all the time and there are specialist companies that organise that. 8 meters in the limit for them but the pilots are private persons certified to do that work, not police. But doing that twice a year would be EXPENSIVE.

You have got me thinking though about a small bridgedeck cat. Sort of a giant jarcat. If the bunk were on the bridgedeck and the hulls had sufficient headroom for a heads area...Somehow Mr Waller has squeezed 2m out of those hulls.

http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/tc750.html

I couldn't do it in ply and I don't like daggerboards but something like that could be a nice boat. Marginal for blue water but with careful trip planning and sticking close to the coast...

Maybe shadow narrowed in foam sandwich with a bridgedeck. Or a modified non folding sango. Hm.

I'll look into what's required for the 3.5 meter permit. Small boat though. Hirondelle size.

 

[Richard Woods]

The Hirondelle is surprisingly seaworthy, the early ones raced round the English Channel regularly while two PNW based Hirondelles sailed round Vancouver island a couple of years ago. But they are very small and uncomfortable inside.

In any earlier post you implied you wanted 4ft6in wide rectangular bunks. So comfort is obviously a high priority for you. You won't get real comfort in any boat under 30ft, assuming you want decent sailing performance and have a seaworthy load carrier as well

(I didn't mean for the police to tow your boat, just catch you doing it)

Remember that you are often at more risk rounding a headland, for example, close in, than you are staying further offshore. Portland Bill in the UK being a classic case, no doubt there are similar place in Australia.

Richard Woods

 

[guzzis3]

(I didn't mean for the police to tow your boat, just catch you doing it)

Ah. Unfortunately there is a police station on the road half way between my place and the ramp. They might notice as I drive by

A lot of thin water in queensland. And it gets thin suddenly. Barrier Reef....you can go from 10 meters to 300 mm in an instant. Of course at 300 mm nothing is going to save you Water is choppy. Good old moreton bay is supposedly semi smooth water but can be an incredibly treacherous place to sail. Shallow, reefs and sudden squally winds, short sharp chop...

The accommodations I want could be had in the Waller. Longitudinal bunk on the bridgedeck as per the jarcat J5/6, standing headroom heads in one hull, galley in the other. Boom tent dinette. Would do nicely. I'd have to watch weight.

Mr Turner actually designed something similar decades ago, the jarcat cc24. Slightly wider and with the emphasis very much on accommodations rather than performance. Again ply though. Oddly last I looked paulownia strip was cheaper per square meter here than good quality ply at least for small boats...

Again thank you all for your thoughts.

 

[Richard Woods]

We have towed illegal loads several times. The first couple we thought doing it at dawn would make sense. But then we discovered that was when everyone else was doing the same thing....the last few times were on Saturna Island, BC, where it is deer, not cars that are the problem. The nearest policeman is two ferry rides away.

On small catamarans check bridgedeck clearance, and where you put all your "stuff".

How low do you have to stoop when crossing the bridgedeck. The Hirondelle (and my Sagitta) have twin companionways to make it easier.

Richard Woods

 

[guzzis3]

Yeah I like twin companionways. Mr Turner put them on the J5 in the early 80's. That was a remarkably innovative and sensible design for what it was. My jarcat had only one offset companionway, the twins were optional. Worked ok, bit of climbing around.

I personally suspect space even on these boats is less of a problem than weight. Either way you just have to be economical with what you take.

We have a "teardrop" camper, which is a little trailer with a double bed, air con and an 18" section across the back for storage. So if it doesn't fit in the car it stays home. We toured 4 weeks in November with that and it's very comfortable, but we had ensuit sites in the van parks.

Bridgedeck clearance if often gotten wrong but both Mr Waller and Mr Turner have good reputations with their cats. The CC24 I think would not be fast nor fabulous, but I am confident Mr Turner would not have made a mess of it.

Speaking of which I saw a production cat for sale a little while ago that made that 32' thing look positively rakish. This design had a huge narcell leaving almost no "throat" between the hulls at all...sneeze ? It'd positively choke...

 

[Richard Woods]

I see Mike Waller says of the TC750

"Note that its intended area of use is sheltered and semi sheltered waters, and not open water."

which to my mind rules it out for what you want to use a boat for, assuming you do intend to cruise the Barrier Reef and NE Australia in winter. But then I have never sailed there so don't know the conditions. One day.....

Richard Woods

 

[Petros]

I heard of one cleaver owner of a slightly too large catamarn who had a special measuring tape made up so if he was ever stopped he could take it out and show the authorities he was just under the legal width limit.

If you can get a wide load permit fairly easily for an oversized laod, you can use this trick perhaps to go a bit wider than the oversize permit allows.

Of course you could just play dumb if anyone discovers your ruse. "What? My tape measure is bad?....must be made in china or something".

 

[guzzis3]

I see Mike Waller says of the TC750

"Note that its intended area of use is sheltered and semi sheltered waters, and not open water."

which to my mind rules it out for what you want to use a boat for, assuming you do intend to cruise the Barrier Reef and NE Australia in winter. But then I have never sailed there so don't know the conditions. One day.....

Richard Woods

I think he might be covering himself there. There are probably still people who build boats before they have much sailing experience...You would have to understand the boats limitations and sail accordingly.

If you ever do get the opportunity I recommend the reef..It really is as good as the brochures, especially the whitsundays, but if you do only do it in winter. Summer here is hell. Winter is superb.

The whitsundays and the marlborough sounds in new zealand are 2 of the most spectacular and beautiful places I've ever been. Airlie beach is the gateway to the whitsundays and their only industry is tourism, but rather than a tourist trap there is everything at different price points including very cheap, and the locals are remarkably helpful and tolerant. Yacht hire was a tad dear for my tastes but we were only 2. I would happily sail between the inner islands on a beach cat. There are currents and if it turned foul like any island group it can be trecherous, but if your cautious and prepared to wait out any dodgy conditions all alone on a tropical beach.... or call in to a resort for coffee and cake...

Petros: Thank you for the idea but I'd prefer to stay within the rules.

 

[Mcarthur]

The only CC24 I've seen pictures of was more of a motor-sailer than sailing machine. Have a look in the pictures in the Yahoo! Groups area on the jarcat mailing list (that I look after ). The CC29 was a good sailer that I was on a few times in Morton Bay and did a trip with Ross Turner Brisbane to Fiji (IIRC). The CC24 though had good standing headroom on the bridgedeck (unlike the CC29), with concomitantly more windage and less clearance. It was also designed for a decent motor off the back and had a shorter mast (though it wouldn't worry me much as I'm partial to foresail-only motor cruising myself).

Personally, I've been watching Richard for some time (multi-stalking? ). I almost snagged a Gypsy from the UK that I could have out in a container and shipped to Oz. But now, I reckon a slightly larger demountable Skoota 28 would be a good GBR cruiser. Larger, because something good for reef-work is height to be able to see the coral bommies and sudden dropoffs, so I'd like to have a higher steering position - the least would be half-way higher than the cabin top, but I'd prefer a flybridge. I'm yet to modify Skoota 28 in my head to have a minimal flybridge... (Anyone? )

Rob

 

[guzzis3]

Thank you for your reply.

Did you see the gypsy that sold in brisbane last year for under $20k ? Heartbreaking.

You probably already know I posted to the jarcats group asking about the CC24. I'm not going to build one, but I love Mr Turners work and would love to look over a boat or plan set.

You idea of a high helm is interesting. I've always been a bit paranoid about the reefs, having hit one or two over the years. That's why I don't like daggers.

Anyway I need to clarify the issues with the 3.5 meter loads before I get too excited.

 

[guzzis3]

Well I've had a discussion with qld transport. I'm awaiting a few ongoing clarifications but it looks like the only way you can tow a 3.5 wide load is behind a truck of more than 4.5 t GVM. That requires a special license. Also the wide load must be on the truck or the truck and trailer unless it's a semi trailer/prime mover combo.

This is my understanding atm.

Leaves me wondering where my Waller got his idea from regarding the TS750 ?

There is a separate allowance for loads to 2.9 meters which can be towed behind light vehicles.

I've been thinking about the idea of launching each half separately with an outrigger and joining on water. That has a lot of potential....multi piece beams are not optimal but it would allow for a home stored large open deck cat.

Anyway if I learn more I'll post an update.

 

[Cat2Fold]

Fuzzie,
If interested in Cat2Fold, I could sail her to you this summer and sell her. Trailer would have to ship separately. PM me if interested.
www.cat2fold.wordpress.com