Split Paddle Wheel propulsion design

[Kermath]

Promises, promises...

No pictures, no plans, no progress?

You're welcome.

Pictures of what? I posed a question 3 days ago about the viability of a split wheel paddle boat. Obviously no plans and the the only progress is some information.
"I think I'll miss you most of all."

 

[Barry]

You might consider a front rudder in addition to a rear rudder for better slow speed maneuvering.

 

[Dave G 9N]

Pictures of what? I posed a question 3 days ago about the viability of a split wheel paddle boat. Obviously no plans and the the only progress is some information.

Getting used to this forum is like hugging porcupines. 32 responses in 3 days says that your project piqued more interest than most threads. There is a list of similar threads at the bottom of the page. Only 2 got more than 20 replies, one of which was "Paddle wheel help" and a familiar face responded almost immediately with a demand for pictures. He must like paddle wheels, pictures anyway. What can I say?

Complex visually, and not steam powered. So steampunk without no steam? Could be interesting.

 

[rangebowdrie]

Here's a guy in Germany that built one of those Atkin sternwheel designs I previously mentioned, Atkin called it "Lady of the Lake, it's ~28'x9'.
He has another vid about the engine arrangement.
He improved Atkin's design by mounting the wheel supports underneath the axle, (I recommend that also,) it allows the whole wheel to be hoisted off the boat with minimal work.
But what he didn't do, (and neither did Atkin,) was to extend the supports aft far enough to have a cross beam aft of the wheel. I highly recommend that, now you've got a "bumper" that will help prevent untoward damage to the wheel if you back into something and also provide a rear mounting place for additional rudders that are aft of the wheel and give you the ability to walk around the wheel for repairs/maintenance.
Having aft rudders really helps turning, they give much more leverage to kick the stern around.
Now, that design, being of a totally flat bottom scow shape and without even a small skeg is more prone to one of the "curiosities" that sternwheel boats can exhibit, they "wag their tails" a little bit.

Another neat little boat.

 

[montero]

That goes against all properly recorded data. If paddle wheels were better, tugs would use them. They are inefficient and prone to breaking and fouling.

If I remember they compare pull power achived from the same engines , one of them powered by some sort of Kort thruster and one by paddle wheel .
Efficiency isn't always the reason to not use some solutions vs another . Especially marine engeneering , very traditional and conservative . Maybe is not very practicall to use big wheel on stern highly manouvrable tug vessel.

 

[gonzo]

That is exactly what I am referring to: bollard pull. Efficiency is the ratio of thrust to input power, regardless of system.

 

[alan craig]

I found some videos of the Taylors Falls paddle wheel boat, quite impressive manoeuvrability with split wheels. They appear to be hydraulically driven, there is one rudder between the wheels.

 

[montero]

That is exactly what I am referring to: bollard pull. Efficiency is the ratio of thrust to input power, regardless of system.

I'm not convinced that e.g. Kort thruster have more bollard pull than well designed paddle wheel . Well designed mean big diameter , optimized paddles maybe feathering maybe hide-in . I think both thrusters will be very comparable.

 

[Kermath]

Getting used to this forum is like hugging porcupines. 32 responses in 3 days says that your project piqued more interest than most threads. There is a list of similar threads at the bottom of the page. Only 2 got more than 20 replies, one of which was "Paddle wheel help" and a familiar face responded almost immediately with a demand for pictures. He must like paddle wheels, pictures anyway. What can I say?

Complex visually, and not steam powered. So steampunk without no steam? Could be interesting.

I viewed some threads on this forum before I joined so I kind of knew what to expect. Actually one thread that I read was from my picture requester. Automotive forums are worse. A lot more opinions and everyone is right.
It may end up steampunk but that isn't my aim. I go by the name Kermath because that is the old inboard engine I am most familiar with. I rebuilt the engine and then built a boat for it. I could envision the paddle boat with 2 of those engines or 1 bigger one. And to those that say it isn't going to be smooth or it's gonna be noisy, guess what, its not. I have been there already. I run engines slow. Enough engine speed to be in the torque curve but not screaming. I appreciated the hp and torque discussion. What I do is get an engine way bigger than I need and run it slow. I am a math and science kind of guy so I don't ignore the numbers, I just use them for reference. For me the design, layout and construction of the propulsion system isn't the hard part of this project. Wait till I get to hull design.

That'll be another can of worms.

 

[montero]

I remember Kermath engines was used in Polish made river speed boat KU-30 1938 .

 

[montero]

I found some videos of the Taylors Falls paddle wheel boat, quite impressive manoeuvrability with split wheels. They appear to be hydraulically driven, there is one rudder between the wheels.

Possible reasons why stern paddle wheels dissaperaed are I.C engines , big heavy and expensive transmissions neccesity , and quite big dimensions paddlewheel itself.
Modern materials , engines, engeenering make split wheels easy and fun . The question remains why ?

 

[gonzo]

I'm not convinced that e.g. Kort thruster have more bollard pull than well designed paddle wheel . Well designed mean big diameter , optimized paddles maybe feathering maybe hide-in . I think both thrusters will be very comparable.

Show any legitimate test that validate that. Paddle wheels went the same way of horse carts. They are quaint but are a primitive technology that has been improved upon.

 

[rangebowdrie]

Sometime go to YouTube and type in "Steamboat Portland".
I've been on her many times, and one of her captains a few years past who I was friends with invited me to join the crew in the engineering dept. as I was knowledgeable about the operation of her steam plant.
(I kick myself for not doing that, I could have sat for my CG license as a 3rd engineer in steam, a not so easy certification to get nowadays).
Anyway, back in the '70s, (when large freighters still came up-river to dock in Portland,) I watched her in operation, she was stationed against the ships starboard quarter and she worked that ship into its berth against the current, she levered that ship around and got it against the pier without fanfare and seemingly little effort.
During that operation there were two other tugs, (with a lot of prop wash behind them,) who's only purpose was to hold the bow of the ship upstream.
She was retired, (it's still an operable museum,) not because of any lack of power, but because of her cost of operation and the fact that when large ships mostly stopped coming to Portland she ran out of work.

 

[montero]

Show any legitimate test that validate that. Paddle wheels went the same way of horse carts. They are quaint but are a primitive technology that has been improved upon.

No. You're wrong at all. Apart from horses , Primitive technology isn't inferior always. BTW why you focus at paddlewheel as past technology ?

 

[Will Gilmore]

@Kermath, I just discovered this link. Are you aware of the American Sternwheel Association? It looks like there is plenty of information and support for members. Paddlewheels are not a prerequisite to join.
Also, paddlewheel racing.
5.3K views · 89 reactions | 2024 Sternwheel Boat Races | The Charleston Sternwheel Regatta was awesome and a great day for racing! Thanks to UA-Visions for the video recap! | By Bryan Hughes | Facebook https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1778126276052544

-Will