Submarine design from scratch

[Zzz]

Hi guys.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions about designing a submarine from scratch. The books i have read imply that the pressure hull volume should be selected first. Isn't the pressure hull a function of the loads and its moments around the subs center of gravity? So when a new design is being created, i need to know all the equipments weights and volumes and where they should be placed inside? If i don't have the weights, how should i estimate them?

Thanks a lot in advance for your help

 

[kvsgkvng]

There are couple of home-made subs impounded by DEA why not ask them for a site tour? Maybe they will answer a few questions.

 

[PAR]

Welcome to the forum Zzz.

To design a sub or any craft, you need to understand the principles and concepts involved, plus incorporate appropriate engineering for the loads expected. There's no short cut to this, no more than developing an airplane. If you expect the airplane to fly and safely carry people ion the process, you'll need a good understanding of the principles and concepts, plus the suitable engineering to get the desired results. I mention this because anytime you pace a human in an unnatural environment (like flying along at 30,000 feet or cruising around, 100' below the water), you need a reasonable level of comprehension in several subjects.

 

[rwatson]

Hi guys.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions about designing a submarine from scratch. The books i have read imply that the pressure hull volume should be selected first. Isn't the pressure hull a function of the loads and its moments around the subs center of gravity? So when a new design is being created, i need to know all the equipments weights and volumes and where they should be placed inside? If i don't have the weights, how should i estimate them?

Thanks a lot in advance for your help

There are a number of amateur sub building sites on the web.

They would be your best start.

Some of the SUB threads on this site have useful references, and a LOT of discussion on the design requirements.

 

[jehardiman]

One must be very careful when talking about submarine design on the internet. True submarines are dual-use items covered right up front under section 8 of the Wassenaar Arrangement (of which the US and Turkey are signatories) See here. http://www.wassenaar.org/controllists/2012/WA-LIST (12) 1/11 - WA-LIST (12) 1 - Cat 8.doc

That said, there are several books published on small submarine design, notably Manned Submersibles by Busby and Submersible Vehicle Systems Design by SNAME. For larger vessel design, there have been some russian texts translated in recent years. Also of note are some recent whitepapers by Prof. P.N.Joubert for the Australian DoD.

 

[gonzo]

It basically means that you design a structure that will hold pressure without collapsing first. Then you can add appendages, fairing, etc. to it.

 

[michael pierzga]

Check out the specs for a small personal submarine. Very many systems, complex, 3500kg with a max payload of 220kg . Its odd that a student be given such a complex task.

http://www.rb-cms.nl/classes/FCKeditor/upload/82/File/c_quester_flyer_a4uboat_2012_web.pdf

 

[gonzo]

It depends of the depth you expect to dive to, and if it is a dry or flooded submarine too.

 

[upchurchmr]

Zzz,

Typical engineering design would start with understanding all the systems you need in the boat. Gather the best estimates of the weights of those systems, make a layout to estimate the volume needed to contain the systems and human/s. Calculate the hull sizing for your depth and activities (depth charges???) including some extra margin of saftey.

Check to see if it will float and be able to dive. Adjust the size of the boat to make it work.

Get some better sizes and weights for the equipment.
Do it again.

About 3 to 20 more cycles will get you to good confidence in your basic design. Of course each cycle requires continuing improvement of the design, volume, and weights of each system.

Prepare a purchasing list of everything required and check specs, volumes, and weights again.

Adjust the hull one last time.

Do you have a list of your requirements for performance?
How about a list of the systems?

Lots of work

 

[rwatson]

Also, a must read thread

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/submarine-yacht-project-13844.html

It should be published

 

[daiquiri]

One must be very careful when talking about submarine design on the internet. True submarines are dual-use items covered right up front under section 8 of the Wassenaar Arrangement (of which the US and Turkey are signatories) See here. http://www.wassenaar.org/controllists/2012/WA-LIST (12) 1/11 - WA-LIST (12) 1 - Cat 8.doc

Reading the item A.1.h:
"Hydrofoil vessels with active systems for automatically controlling foil systems, with a maximum design speed, fully loaded, of 40 knots or more in a significant wave height of 3.25 m (Sea State 5) or more."

Does it mean that Doug Lord could get arrested anytime soon?

 

[Submarine Tom]

Daiqu,

We could all get arrested if you go anywhere near USA!

One reason I avoid it.

I doubt they miss me.

According to Harpers magazine, 97% of US citizens think the rest of the world wants to live there...

Have a great weekend.

Oh, as far as making a submarine goes, from scratch, come on,

how hard can it be?!

Cheers!

 

[jehardiman]

Reading the item A.1.h:
"Hydrofoil vessels with active systems for automatically controlling foil systems, with a maximum design speed, fully loaded, of 40 knots or more in a significant wave height of 3.25 m (Sea State 5) or more."

Does it mean that Doug Lord could get arrested anytime soon?

Yep, and I bet he cuts the tags off his mattresses also...

It is always selective enforcement, just like the our immigration problem....97% of the people in the world want to live here, but there isn't enough social security and free medical care to go around. That's why the 3% who think they aren't getting enough want to leave.

 

[myark]

This boat sub is made from scratch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2x8aYAysw

 

[rwatson]

One must be very careful when talking about submarine design on the internet. True submarines are dual-use items covered right up front under section 8 of the Wassenaar Arrangement (of which the US and Turkey are signatories) .

Whats so top secret? The aims are

"The Wassenaar Arrangement has been established in order to contribute to regional and international security and stability, by promoting transparency and greater responsibility in transfers of conventional arms and dual-use goods and technologies, thus preventing destabilising accumulations. Participating States seek, through their national policies, to ensure that transfers of these items do not contribute to the development or enhancement of military capabilities which undermine these goals, and are not diverted to support such capabilities."

Theres nothing about talking about it on the internet that I can see.