New 27' trimaran design by Kurt Hughes

[yves]

About "cruiser/racer" trimaran, a bit out of subject here but discussed earlier in the thread I think, two interesting ones, and for sale these days :

Krysalid 42 :
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/23178
http://www.dorval-mer.com/projet_krysalid_42.htm

And Dinabar, a Lerouge design :
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.274020809378080.61741.274015929378568&type=3

 

[Corley]

Thanks for posting those. I really like the look of the Lerouge "Dinabar" he has a gift for producing boats that are practical, perform well and look good.

 

[yves]

Yes Lerouge is one of these naval designers really putting "seaworthiness" , performance, and deck functionality before anything else (and very overall cost minded as well), and he really designed a lot of boats (monos, catas and tris).
Wonder what is the story behind Dinabar being for sale, apparently it is still in Dakar where it has been built.

 

[Corley]

An interesting short article by Kurt Hughes musing on Dick Newick's massive contribution to multihull design and their different design philosophies.

http://multihullblog.com/2012/08/some-thoughts-on-meeting-dick-newick/

 

[cavalier mk2]

What a mouth.....I was always put off by Kurt's Vendetta against Kelsall's Kiss system but I didn't know he also nannered at everyone else. Walter Green is the one who started using the Gougeon style of bonded in interiors laid out to strengthen the boat for and aft. Double diagonal is great for resisting the twisting and wracking loads imposed by large seas, which are missing in Puget Sound.

Kurt doesn't have the big race record of anyone else (Newick, Kelsall, Cross, Crowther,Brown etc....) so there may be another side to the story, back in the 70s the use of gear was still evolving. Kurt should contemplate the other reasons people in the NW built so many boats to others designs....His early boats squatted on their sterns at anchor with the bows in the air, everybody scratched their heads murmuring it probably sorts out under way and went off to build designs by people with ocean experience which is more varied than the predictable waters of Puget Sound. Then there was the public relations. If you bad mouth everybody else to make your boats seem better people have a tendency not to want to promote your work or sail one of your designs. Kurt's boats have evolved along with the computers he needs to design them, those old sculptures of Newick's were drawn by hand, but his maturity is something the sailing word is still waiting for. It probably got stuck in a windhole in Puget sound......Hopefully people at the event will keep them from meeting, I can't imagine why Dick Newick would want to.

 

[teamvmg]

Yes, you would think that someone that had meticulously designed and launched so many successful trimarans would be a bit more considered before committing 'pen to paper'
........... answered that myself didn't I!

 

[Gary Baigent]

Have to admit his mouthing off against the pioneers was very disappointing ... because I like his recent designs, especially his truly open 8.5.

 

[cavalier mk2]

I've liked some of his boats too but you get more flies with honey. I don't think he missed many designers with his "observations"....In the NW the F-boats have won far more races....3 Cheers, the Newick boat he was criticizing was the ex Tom Follet racer from the 72 OSTAR. It was barely edged out for first place in the 74 Round the Isles by the 70' cat British Oxygen largely do to a tactical mistake which is a great performance. Mike McMullen disappeared in the 76 OSTAR but shouldn't have been allowed to sail after the death of his wife.

 

[Corley]

I guess you dont understand the ocean racer's heart Cav because If I had been in the same situation I would have gone too. Mike decided to go, Liz and Mike had worked for years to be ready for that race. I'm against people being prevented from doing what they want and the wreckage that was found indicated he was probably run down by a freighter not a failure of his boat or seamanship. No AIS in those days and solo sailors did get run down by commercial shipping sometimes, I think even Tabarly was hit by a freighter on Pen Duick IV.

I said it was an interesting article not that you would like it. It's Kurt's use of examples that gets under the skin. I'm sure if he simply said that design approaches have evolved to focus on orienting fibres and reinforcements to where their needed then nobody would complain. Some of Dick's boats did flex but he did address it in later designs. In Rogue Wave for example the rear house structure was designed to help deal with backstay loads and allow Phil Weld to wind on the pressure for good forestay tension.

 

[Gary Baigent]

His observations of Three Cheers were way off. For a start the fine floats on the boat were MEANT to bloody depress; that was the school of thought of the times, also same with the Lock Crowther boats of the period ... and both designers had quite high platform dihedral and not high freeboard floats, so with their high beam layouts, of course the boats would lean, that was the philosophy; if overpowered the float would immerse telling you to ease up. And nothing wrong with that - in those early days when flying on one hull was considered crazy extreme. That is why, today, with our brilliant 20/20 hindsight, the rigs of the times appear low aspect; the idea was not to lay high power on the lee float. Less is more.
Also, having done many miles on a Newick tri, you get a softer ride with the finer floats ... and nothing wrong with that either. Plus we never had problems with the boat flexing. Don't know where that mythology came from - because Mokihi was/is an early Newick Trixia.
Also in that short sequence of Three Cheers beating and pointing (very sweetly) heeling over but with excellent speed - that was how they were supposed to sail. Remember, Newick was one of the earliest designers to introduce foils into his floats, also experimented with half moon shapes too. An innovative pioneer willing to trust his experimental ideas ... would that follower KH could say the same.

 

[Corley]

It was in Phil's article on Dick Newick. If I recall correctly It was Phil Weld's Gulf Streamer that was very flexible it was a 60' trimaran though so probably a very new engineering challenge at the time.

 

[cavalier mk2]

I understand muck and much Corely. The only wreckage to be found from 3 Cheers was in a trawl net off Iceland years later causing everyone to wonder what route Mike took....Nobody thought what happened was the fault of the boat unless he fell off a iced up deck.
Don't think Taberly was run down in Pen Duick 4 but that is the probable fate of Colas years later when the boat was named Manureva.

What is silly is Kurt comparing his current work to designs from the 70s. He has not been measured by the same yardstick and is likely not cut from the same cloth. In the NW he got his start as the cheap alternative to the design fees of others. Nothing wrong with that but the serious cruisers went across the Sound to Marples in Port Orchard. The Tremelino was designed to be built easily out of sheet ply and use the most common cat made as a donor to keep costs down. Like a F-boat when heeled that dory hull presents an edge for a nice ride. It is very easy to use a round hull and bigger cat to make something faster, calling yourself better for it isn't smart. To compare talents he would need to make a design to use the Hobie 16 and build as fast for the same cost. The mid cockpit puts people where you need them on a boat that is pretty much a daysailer.

 

[Silver Raven]

Yes, you would think that someone that had meticulously designed and launched so many successful trimarans would be a bit more considered before committing 'pen to paper'
........... answered that myself didn't I!

Gooday t-vmg. I can't figure out just whom you are talking about that "someone that had meticulously designed & launched so many successful trimarans" - I missed which person you ment . Would you please enlighten me. Thanks, ciao, james

 

[Corley]

I understand muck and much Corely. The only wreckage to be found from 3 Cheers was in a trawl net off Iceland years later causing everyone to wonder what route Mike took....Nobody thought what happened was the fault of the boat unless he fell off a iced up deck.
Don't think Taberly was run down in Pen Duick 4 but that is the probable fate of Colas years later when the boat was named Manureva.

What is silly is Kurt comparing his current work to designs from the 70s. He has not been measured by the same yardstick and is likely not cut from the same cloth. In the NW he got his start as the cheap alternative to the design fees of others. Nothing wrong with that but the serious cruisers went across the Sound to Marples in Port Orchard. The Tremelino was designed to be built easily out of sheet ply and use the most common cat made as a donor to keep costs down. Like a F-boat when heeled that dory hull presents an edge for a nice ride. It is very easy to use a round hull and bigger cat to make something faster, calling yourself better for it isn't smart. To compare talents he would need to make a design to use the Hobie 16 and build as fast for the same cost. The mid cockpit puts people where you need them on a boat that is pretty much a daysailer.

I dont really understand all of the comparisons either some seem to be drawing rather a long bow or out of context. I dont really understand how comparing prototype multihulls with more developed models is relevant. The tremelino despite the perceived faults sold well and are a much loved boat by their owners and a cheap way of getting on the water in a small trimaran. That does not necessarily mean that Kurt's design philosophy isn't a good one just that he needs to make more valid comparisons (or better still let the designs stand on their own merits).

Articles like the one I linked are not going to win him any friends and may turn off potential customers. The sad thing is the article starts well but ends up reading like sour grapes rather than the valid design commentary it could be on how design has advanced. Kurt's cylinder mold and composite boats have proved to be quite robust over the years. The only failures I have heard of seemed to stem from poor maintenance or innapropriate fitting of hardware.

 

[luckystrike]

Hi all,

I agree with most of the opinions ... I like the Kurt Hughes Designs and building methods he invented, but its no good idea to lough at other designers inventions or designs. What they did was state of the art then.

You can do this at the bar of the yacht club, joking with friends, but not in a official article.

A little background to the statements:

Rouge Wave was engeneered (in Wood) by the Gougeon Brothers and built after the lines of Gulf Streamer (Glas Sandwich). Dont know how much Newick was involved into the process. (from Phil Welds Book, "Moxie")

If you look the videos of Golden Oldies Multihulls, you can see that a Tremolino can be pressed quite hard. I feel like Gary .. its nothing bad when the ama can not fly the mainhull. Its not dangerous not to have a the latest full power technology if you just want to have a affordable, quick trimaran and fun sailing.

Best Regards, Michel