these turbine alternaters are easy to make

Im all about the barbecue anyway
but the stoves are to beautiful not to include at least one
I would prefer to use the pellet stoves to heat with in cold airs

ya I like the boat and have begun a model to help me get everything just right
or at least the hull
Ill build several deck designs and try em on for size so to speak

it will be steam powered with a ($2,000 new for castings and I built a shop a while back for the head machinist at Ball Aerospace so I think Im covered on getting the finishing touches on it ) 200+ hp steam engine with 1050 ft/lb torque
so Ill probably run twin screws off of a single engine with that much torque
the engine is reversible and like electric has good torque at slow engine speeds so Im debating the need for a transmission
the boilers are DIY and I can get the prints for $32
Ill convert them to pellets and I can buy a pellet mill that fits in the engine room to make the pellets out of just about any kind of dry plant fiber
being a builder I can mill out all the pellets I need in a year in about a week of effort

there will be three wind turbine generators keeping things electrified with a battery bank large enough to run the boat and give me a few hours of auxiliary drive time with a little 17hp elec torquedo

the Sophia Christina is nice but costs me about twice as much to build and operate
pellets are only $200 ton and I could make em free if I had enough sawdust and I bet I have half a ton of sawdust in the trash can now
the boilers burn 1-10 lb an hour each so at full tilt thats 20lb/hr or ~500;b a day
but 4-7 lbs is more like normal operation or roughly half that
the boat originally held 750 gallons of fuel at 7lb a gallon that 2 1/2 tons of fuel and ran a cruising speed of ten knots
at 2 1/2 tons of pellets I could go for about ( 250 lbs a day ) 20 days at ten knots
although I got a funny feeling if I checked that against the BTU potential I might find an error in that logic ( I did )

but the point is that the fuel ( pellets )
can be made out of any dried plant mater you happen do get a hold of
and run for quit a long time on the same weight of fuel
and stash the stuff just about anywhere on board

 

I think your steam boiler (which should be insulated for efficiencies sake) should be enough.... - It is a boat (I think) and not a back woods cabin... Or am I mistaken again?

 

its sorta both a boat and a cabin since Ill be living aboard
well the boiler in the small decorative wood stove would run the balance beam engine which would run an auxiliary set of alternators




would make a nice attraction piece in the aft cabin when I had quests and needed a little extra power
although it would be slick to leave the aft cabin with only the stove portion of the rig and pipe the steam up to the wheel house were I could have the small engine mounted in some focal point as an entry piece
I could cast a nice housing for a low speed alternator and include it in the pile of workings with a little glass dome over it all to keep dust and fingers out
who knows Im still just working out the major details and not even close to the minor ones yet


some one pointed out and they were right that there should be a conventional powered genset to power things if I dont get enough wind and havent gone anywhere in a while The main engine has more than enough power to run a set of alternators and still drive the boat but thats a lot of engine if all Im doing is floating in a heat wave at the dock and I dont want to light a fire in the boat to run the air conditioning
speaking of which
I need to find a place to hide the air conditioner eventually

hey Ras I got those disadvantages down
its about 700 miles between me and the Mississippi at st Louis but its a straight shot and dam flat the hole way. The original lines are 12'4" with a 9'7 3/16" strong keel shoe to top of stem
seems like it would be nuts to try and truck it 700 miles when I could just build it by the river in the first place
but just for fun ill contact the guys I usually use and see what they want to haul a 14 wide 10 high and 62 long load down the road to the river
Ive seen oil and gas drilling separation tanks going down the road and those are definitely taller and at least 16 wide
you see em on the back roads in Wyoming sometimes on the flip side of Cheyenne up were they do all the drilling

these things are just spectacular
if Im going to have a steam powered craft then Im going to want something like one of these as a showcase piece



and ever seen a square gear before
or a wooden piston housing



had to sneak this one in
just watch the whole thing
and
hang on mates

 

Bloody magic... I am lost for words

 

just for fun I looked up what I can and cant get down the road and found this picture



thing is 20' wide 20' high and 290' long
it weighs 917,000 lbs and has 90+ tires under it
those two trucks in the back help push

the section of law specifically covering boats transported on the highway system is 31 18 804 and the limmits are 75' ttl vehicle length 12' wide 15' tall ground to top of load
exceed that and its a fifty dollar permit good for up to one year in the state of Nebraska
in Missouri the limits are 105' x12' x 14'6" and a permit is $100

 

Classic Yachts & Flyweel Energy Storage

I guess we have some similar 'likes' Boston.

You have some very nice photos of classic motoryachts distributed throughout this thread. I came very close to buying an old ACF (American Car & Foundary) vessel to live aboard when I was in college. The ACF were very similar to the Elco designs.

If you have a lot of similar photos you should consider posting them on another subject thread, either a new one or an existing one of that same subject??

Flywheel energy storage devices:
I made a few references with photos over on this other subject thread

Ship Propulsion & Energy Supply/Management
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/new-propulsion-sytems-ships-9630-11.html#post85848

Composite Flywheel Structural Improvement
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/new-propulsion-sytems-ships-9630-13.html#post88966

Bitterly's pioneering & Rosen Brother's work
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/new-propulsion-sytems-ships-9630-14.html

 

interesting read Brian
I also looked into flywheels for cars as a way to store solar energy rather than batteries
I used two counter rotating 3' diameter 200lb wheels spinning at about 10,000 rpm
at that speed they could accelerate a one ton car to 70 mph well over 100 times or something like that
was more than enough to get you down the road
I even designed a variable speed transmission 100/1-1/10000 with about four moving parts
never even remotely built it but it was a fun exorcise

course then I realized you dont need the transmission if you think of and build the flywheel like a giant rotor and the central axis as another rotor both within there own stator with the large one doin gthe charging and the small one doing the retrieving
that way you can float it on magnetic bearings and charge it with decent "leverage" and then you can discharge it again with decent leverage from the axis mounted alternator

 

The funny thing, every step in storing energy has its losses - or - inefficiencies in transfer and holding, some more "expensive" than others, in these losses or "accommodating" costs.

Expect a gyroscopic device (flywheel) to have its own peculiar issues which is why they have not been adopted in devices that move around and about as opposed to being stationary - I am thinking about the case of gyroscopic navigational devices - as I guess there may be issues? - - - A device which can be set to always point to true north. - - So as it is moved around this globe in one direction cabling must be sorted to accommodate this in the "free-locating in gimbals part" - I would like this feeling dispelled? - is it so?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/11/s...ric-cars.html?sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=all

 

well M rumor in the family is that my uncle who worked at Los alamos national lab invented the laser gyroscope he also invented the holographic spectrogram and a bunch of other stuff but for obvious reasons seldom talked about it

one of the things Im working on lately is a video imaging system that layers individual images from multiple cameras shooting from an array

the problem Im trying to clear up is that in Yellowstone the animal spotters all use these old Swarofski spotting scopes
they are limited to about 60 power because of the heat shimmer

the solution to squinting through a spotting scope is to be starring at a computer reconstruction on a nice big screen of multiple layered images from various camera's that average out the heat flutter and so have significantly better resolution

the individual frames can then be reconstructed back into video form and displayed on a lap top

I got the guys who wrote the original program for the stacking working on rewrighting there program to handle video
and I got the local astronomy club ( president of there club is a friend of mine ) working on the best high speed digital camera telescope combo
another friend of mine was the head machinist at Ball Aerospace who I built a shop for a few years ago and he is working on the array housing and a laser range finding system
basically mounting a laser in the array to help get all the cameras focused

the system basically takes a picture of a real image with the heat shimmer just like the spotting scope
it then combines that with another image and averages out the picture pixel by pixel
if the two shots are taken from even slightly different positions but of an object sufficiently far away then the target should be sufficiently similar to remain consistent in both views
but the heat shimmer should be slightly varied
that variation can be digitally removed
the system then adds another layer and cleans up the picture
I have 6 cameras arrayed in a hexagonal pattern slaved for focus to a central camera with a laser range finder
stack the images enough times and I should be able to remove all traces of heat distortion
Im thinking the system can have lots more uses than just for watching animals in the park
but thats all I want it for
Im givving the idea to the programmers in return for several free systems

if Im lucky I can have one done for my next trip to Yellowstone

in the end no one uses actual gyroscopes anymore at least not in the military
they all use the laser gyroscope systems

 

ok so back on track for the wind turbines

folks have been getting pretty creative with these things







thing is you need a little juice while out on the water and wind is more reliable than sunshine in at least some places with the two kinda running in opposite cycles

the turbines as can be seen from that last can be easily and cheaply made and there are countless companies that make the bits and pieces
the wind direction is irrelevant and the vertical fixed axis is more conducive to resist high winds than the conventional design

$500 would build a sweet system at 2,500 watts and 13 amps
$250 to junk yard one
as compared to a sharp 80 watt sollar panel 4.67 amps at $475.00 ea/10
which sounds a lot like you will be buying ten to get that price

so an auxiliary system to power the bats seems to have made itself self evident

I think several vawt generators could be tastefully added to the after deck area of this basic designed vessel between the cushions attop the aft cabin house
of course they would be held in protective houseings similar to this below



seems that the power system should also make itself self evident if enough cost benefit analysis is done

one thing having yet to be mentioned it the mass to power ratio of the fuels being compared
diesel or wood pellets

the weight of that pennies worth of fuel is
diesel 0.024 lb
pellets 0.089 lb

which means it takes `~2x the mass to achieve the same btu potential
so how much fuel did that boat originally carry



well the 1930 version for which I have lines and specs carried only 300 gallons
or a mas of just a tad under one British ton 2,145

so whats the range
the boat had two 210 hp engines and traveled at a cruising speed of 10 knots and a max speed of 14 knots
the engines were two 4 stroke Cummins 6BT
I get numbers of between 204g per K/hr and 230g per K/hr fuel consumption on that engine
so 1 lb = 454 grams
call it 1/2 lb fuel at 7.15 lbs per gallon .07 gallons
so if 1 hp = 746 watts then 1kw = 1.34hp
if I run the engines full tilt then Im using all 420 hp and consuming 318.19 kw per hour or 22.25 gallons of fuel
if there a linear relationship between the speed an fuel consumed and there probably isnt then Ive got a consumption of 10/14 x 22.25 = 15.89g/h at 10 knots
hmmmm sounds high
looking through a few threads I find on the first page of the Diesel fuel vs gas thread a nifty chart that clearly shows the graph as a function
the actual consumption at say .7% power is about 50% of what it is at max
so range on that boat with 300 gallons of fuel is about 27 hrs or ~270 miles

if I want similar range I would need to stow roughly two tons of pellets or $450 bucks worth as apposed to $900 in diesel and get 270 miles out of the deal

its 1866 miles between New Newfoundland and Portmagee Ireland so if I could stash 15 tons of fuel and had about 9 days to kill I could be sipping martini's in Dublin before the girl even started wondering were I had gone
call it 16 to be on the safe side

sooo how much fuel can that thing hold
im estimating displacement at 85,176 lbs and thats a big huge guess based on 60x13x3.5/2=cubic feet x 62lbs per pound
holly crap I never thought that thing would weigh 42 tons

ok so if it draws 3.5 feet at 42 tons and I jam 16 tons of fuel on board is it going to sink?

basically it should ride about 16 lower in the water fully loaded
looking at the boat and realizing that the stem to water line height is about 6' 7 1/2" Im going to estimate that the water line paint is
surprising enough 18 inches
should float
wont be pretty but it will float

dam
stashing that much fuel would be a pain
( wonder if I could jam enough in for the return trip )

 

Boston, I had a picture I got here of a cat with long vertical blades that appeared to be entwined together. Never could find it or any similar vertical
asis turbine. Just info

 

rasorinc, - - - Did it look like the blades on the "kostner boat" in waterworld? - sort of like an egg whisk? - fairly efficient system that can be feathered in heavy winds or not needed - not collapsed as in the ww story... - I think I have seen several variations in European sites??? design and shaping of the blades is a bit complex/difficult - allows sailing directly into the wind or on any point but I doubt "faster than the wind"....

 

Masali, I saw waterworld so long ago I cannot say. I have seen similar things that hang on your patio and shimmer and rotate quite fast. In fact the slightest air movement and they trilwerelled fast. I lost the picture but if you find something please give me a heads up. It was like 3 vertical blades entertwined could have been 5 blades. It sure looked interesting but I've searched to no end trying to find that pic and looking at sites for vertical turbines for something similar. Hope you have better luck. Stan PS those patio hangings might be the way to find something on this.

 

Bos, Lear spent millions trying to design a steam engine for busses. At one time they had a ton of info avaiable on line. As best I remember the problem was getting steam as fast as they needed it--not true in a boat. You might find a wealth on info researching Lears efforts. Just a thought for you. Best, Stan They had several engines running on busses--maybe they would sell you one.--just another thought.