Some one has to start it, Americas default.

[michael pierzga]

Actually I think the American crisis began in the early 80's when Americans discovered a new world of prosperity built on debt. The early 80s saw the demise of the " CHRISTMAS LAYAWAY PLAN ! ONLY 19.95 per MONTH, and the introduction of various financial products that facilitated instantaneous gratification in return for debt. The average American has been punching above his weight class for decades. The present crisis will end only when the American consumer recovers from its debt hangover .

 

[powerabout]

Actually I think the American crisis began in the early 80's when Americans discovered a new world of prosperity built on debt. The early 80s saw the demise of the " CHRISTMAS LAYAWAY PLAN ! ONLY 19.95 per MONTH, and the introduction of various financial products that facilitated instantaneous gratification in return for debt. The average American has been punching above his weight class for decades. The present crisis will end only when the American consumer recovers from its debt hangover .

Although we touched on it before has anyone got the figures of personal debt and Government sovereign debt when comparing countries

 

[Bamby]

That was such a load of BULL*&*(& - As someone who has worked very hard to balance the books in a bank - BANKS CANNOT CREATE MONEY AT WILL.

What a moronic statement !!!!

But they really do make money at will they just never create the interest money needed to pay off the note.

The "almost hidden" conspirators in politics, religion, education, entertainment, and the news media are working for the banker-owned United States, in a banker-owned World under a banker-owned World Government! (This is what all the talk of a New World Order promoted by Presidents Bush and Clinton is all about.)

Unfair banking policies and taxes will continue to take a larger and larger part of the annual earning of the people and put them into the pockets of the bankers and their political agents. Increasing government regulations will prevent citizen protest and opposition to their control.

It is possible that your grandchildren will own neither home nor car, but will live in "government owned" apartments and ride to work in "government owned" buses (both paying interest to the bankers), and be allowed to keep just enough of their earnings to buy a minimum of food and clothing while their rulers wallow in luxury. In Asia and eastern Europe it is called "communism;" in America it is called "Democracy" and "Capitalism."

America will not shake off her Banker-controlled dictatorship as long as the people are ignorant of the hidden controllers. Banking concerns, which control most of the governments of the nations, and most sources of information, seem to have us completely within their grasp. They are afraid of only one thing: an awakened patriotic citizenry, armed with the truth, and with a trust in God for deliverance. This material has informed you about their iniquitous system. What you do with it is in your hands.

Please see http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/blueplate/billions_contents.html for links for the entire article, read, absorb, and hopefully understand. We as a people have been shackled by our bought and paid for politicians and the bankers.

 

[masalai]

That was such a load of BULL*&*(& - As someone who has worked very hard to balance the books in a bank - BANKS CANNOT CREATE MONEY AT WILL.

What a moronic statement !!!!

Err. where did you go to school? When a bank makes a "home loan" the mortgage goes on the banks books AS AN ASSET at the value of the amount to be repaid in the mortgage... That is just one method the banks use to "create money"... because the part or principal of the loan goes to the previous owner and for them it is an asset used to pay off their mortgage and invest in or spend on other things... The bank may then onsell that mortgage when bundled with hundreds of other mortgages to become an AAA rated asset and sold to "investors" and into the "hedge market"... 'Will', does not get a look in - IT HAPPENS !!!!!!!!!!

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This, quoted below, is as close as I have seen of the cause for the GEC in a "one liner" yet, but the disease spread so quickly it cannot be blamed on USA - I would be inclined to suggest "the developed or 'Western' world", as THE LAY-BY PLAN ... which very quickly became the CREDIT PLAN in the 50's... I bought my first NEW car in the early sixties on credit, still a teenager... and THAT WAS MONEY CREATION, at the local bank in Bendigo...

Actually I think the American crisis began in the early 80's when Americans discovered a new world of prosperity built on debt. The early 80s saw the demise of the " CHRISTMAS LAYAWAY PLAN ! ONLY 19.95 per MONTH, and the introduction of various financial products that facilitated instantaneous gratification in return for debt. The average American has been punching above his weight class for decades. The present crisis will end only when the American consumer recovers from its debt hangover .

----------**********----------​

Although we touched on it before has anyone got the figures of personal debt and Government sovereign debt when comparing countries

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html - only here and as a percentage of the GDP in that particular country's currency - not very useful as a comparative or analytical tool, as I like to see the raw data ---- otherwise the 'information' is open to 'manipulation and misdirection'...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html This sort of data is useful but then again, is there duplication? and the definitions and sources information are all too brief and in need of better definition... Perhaps "+" signs between breakup data and "=" signs at the summation point and grand totals in the negative "in red" down on the right margin and assets/income in "blue" and 'future debt' in say, "purple"?

ALL money in US$ is on loan to the US Treasury/Government from the "Federal Reserve Bank" a privately controlled organisation created by an "act"... owned by the "banksters"... Everyone is subject to the whims of of the banksters who 'an inclined plane set in spiral alignment' you...

 

[michael pierzga]

Bamby, how are the bankers scheming conspirators in the purchase of a home or a bank loan for education ? You, the citizen, are the one borrowing , you the citizen are the one using money that you have not created. Bankers simply facilitate the transaction.

I personally dont understand what all this " day of rage" stuff is all about ? Deficits ??

Governments dont run deficits..you, the voter who demands ever more public service without first examining the finacial consequences ,created the deficit.

I do agree that the financial industry generates to much profit and must be put under the regulators microscope . Monopolies that squash competition and create to big to fail...off balance sheet accounting .... hybrid financial products .... lack of financial industry accountability certainly must addressed.

These issues dont require rage, they require attention.

 

[masalai]

Hi Michael,
History and the details behind the exposure of that racket are the cause of most ills in the financial markets... Start by reading the background notes available at GATA, most is carefully linked and affirmed as true and correct... These people relied on absolutely scrupulous checking on the voracity of all information... To my mind the MOST honest and reliable source of information in the world...
http://www.gata.org/taxonomy/term/21 - Documentation
http://www.gata.org/taxonomy/term/4 - Essays
http://www.gata.org/about opens another category of background reading - It covers most issues in the GEC arena.... They remain VERY SERIOUS analysers/observers of the global economic situation...

Bix Weir http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/department39.cfm offers his own twist to "entertain" as does Max Keiser http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/ (I think he hates the NY fraudster-traders vociferously) and has a wicked/naughty/spiteful sense of humour... - both access the facts as they see them and present in the theme they have created as a 'distraction' to the seriousness and danger to the peace of the world (make light of bad news)...

Casey Research offers a view that relates to his investment interests, (turns a blind eye to some things not of direct interest for research), but still a valid view...
http://www.caseyresearch.com/gsd/edition/gold-traders-most-bullish-july-after-plunge

 

[michael pierzga]

Retail banking cant be confused with investment banking. I fully acknowledge that investment bankers are crooks...always have been and always will be. They are bred that way. How to control this phenomenon, this natural human behavior, is the question. The new proposal by Volker seems to be a reasonable response. The Tobin tax seems reasonable. I also see that the authorities in the US are finally taking insider trading seriously. Hopefully they next go after monopolies.

Many times I sense that regulators, governments, politicians turn a blind eye towards irresponsibly cowboys in the financial industry because these cowboys huge bets and millions of daily trades generate tax revenue to feed the government beast.

 

[masalai]

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...wn-of-irans-intelligence-service-2369657.html A reasonable refutation of some ??? questionable statements - I side slightly more with the newspaper article "Patrick Cockburn: This bizarre plot goes against all that is known of Iran's intelligence service" http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...wn-of-irans-intelligence-service-2369657.html and more here http://news.yahoo.com/former-iran-assassin-says-alleged-plot--makes-no-sense-.html

 

[rwatson]

Give me strength !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwatson
That was such a load of BULL*&*(& - As someone who has worked very hard to balance the books in a bank - BANKS CANNOT CREATE MONEY AT WILL.

What a moronic statement !!!!

But they really do make money at will they just never create the interest money needed to pay off the note.
......[/I]

BANKS DO NOT MAKE MONEY !!!!!

They have to balance every single dollar - it comes from other places, and goes to other places, but THEY DO NOT CREATE MONEY FROM NOTHING, which is what that original article tried to tell us.

If someone has no real idea how finance works behind the scenese, how can you put any faith in the other assertions ?

 

[masalai]

Hi Michael,
Trouble is most "Merchant banks" now are in the guise of retail banks (through acquisitions etc...) and as such, the whole issue becomes cloudy and confused... Recent history in "prosecutions" does not instil any confidence in the resolution of this global plight... Copping a fine for no criminal record is ridiculous and is usually less than 1% of the net proceeds "stolen"... But then again I do not follow that action in that sector as assiduously as one making a comment should

 

[rwatson]

Err. where did you go to school? When a bank makes a "home loan" the mortgage goes on the banks books AS AN ASSET at the value of the amount to be repaid in the mortgage... ..

I went to school at the bank, where I wrote systems that control the money. Whats your qualfication ?

Those funds that go in cheques to builders, home sellers, plumbers, electricians, lawyers COME FROM REAL MONEY !!! From other lenders, from depositors, from interest earned on investments.

The money due can be regarded as an asset, or an account receivable, or if you borrow from a building society or lawyer, it is actually treated under trust fund rules.

Like all 'assets', it is not money, and the value of an 'asset' can vary from year to year, depending on a lot of variables. They can forgive part of the debt, lower or raise the interest rate, its all flexible. It is not money until it is disposed of, and converted to cash. Then the 'asset' true values can be discounted by sale costs (eg lawyers, collection costs etc), raised by income from mortgage insurance.

Look at the US banks who thought their 'assets' with worth the full loan value, and then look what they actually got on default loans ! Just because you say you have an asset doesn't mean you will realise the value.

 

[masalai]

just for fun...
JCU post grad cert in business -
- marketing, - topped class of 150 -
- accounting analysis, - distinction in analysis of the global CSR annual report...

Depends on your terms of reference and from whence you are observing the situation, Macroeconomics is my sole interest of relevance in this point... My lecturer was Dr C Rao at WAIT (now Curtin) long ago...

Like all 'assets', it is not money, and the value of an 'asset' can vary from year to year, depending on a lot of variables. They can forgive part of the debt, lower or raise the interest rate, its all flexible. It is not money until it is disposed of, and converted to cash. Then the 'asset' true values can be discounted by sale costs (eg lawyers, collection costs etc), raised by income from mortgage insurance.

"When a bank makes a "home loan" the mortgage goes on the banks books AS AN ASSET at the value of the amount to be repaid in the mortgage... That is just one method the banks use to "create money"... because the part or principal of the loan goes to the previous owner and for them it is an asset used to pay off their mortgage and invest in or spend on other things... The bank may then onsell that mortgage when bundled with hundreds of other mortgages to become an AAA rated asset and sold to "investors" and into the "hedge market"... 'Will', does not get a look in - IT HAPPENS !!!!!!!!!!"

Did not my case explain similarly?

Look at the US banks who thought their 'assets' with worth the full loan value, and then look what they actually got on default loans ! Just because you say you have an asset doesn't mean you will realise the value.

That is part of the story of how toxic debts infested the economic systems.... Some sold at a profit, to some who sold at a loss, and on to some who got caught out holding the "bunney"... Who now holds the "bunney" is a serious question for it may be 'on-their-books' as a valued asset, when in reality it is as toxic as the plague and more than sufficient to cause the collapse of many banks and other instrumentalities claiming these as AAA rated assets...

 

[michael pierzga]

And I know nothing of economics and have never made a profitable investment.

 

[masalai]

Hi Michael,
Therefore your view is equally valid as it is not distracted by conventions, and other hindrances to understanding - just natural thought derived from life experiences is often qualification enough in Macroeconomics... A 'certificate-in-double-speak', and in 'witchcraft', is also helpful with a good dictionary and Thesorus kept handy is useful... - - Dr Rao once suggested in a tutorial, that if Macro (and even micro-) economists practised 3~500 years ago? they would likely have been candidates for witchcraft's punishment of "burning-at-the-stake"...

 

[rwatson]

just for fun...
JCU post grad cert in business -
- marketing, - topped class of 150 -
- accounting analysis, - distinction in analysis of the global CSR annual report...

Depends on your terms of reference and from whence you are observing the situation, Macroeconomics is my sole interest of relevance in this point... My lecturer was Dr C Rao at WAIT (now Curtin) long ago...



"When a bank makes a "home loan" the mortgage goes on the banks books AS AN ASSET at the value of the amount to be repaid in the mortgage... That is just one method the banks use to "create money"... because the part or principal of the loan goes to the previous owner and for them it is an asset used to pay off their mortgage and invest in or spend on other things... The bank may then onsell that mortgage when bundled with hundreds of other mortgages to become an AAA rated asset and sold to "investors" and into the "hedge market"... 'Will', does not get a look in - IT HAPPENS !!!!!!!!!!"

Did not my case explain similarly?

.

With such credentials, I don't know how you can keep on insisting that Banks MAKE or CREATE money. (and I dont mean 'make' as 'create profits')

You just explained very succinctly how they convert Assets, transfer assets and value assets.

How do Banks create 'money' from nothing ???

They dont - they trade assets, they package assets, and the assets are not money, they are only the legal obligation taken on by borrowers, the current sale value of the collateral, less he cost of conversions.