Raised cabin vs flush deck

[michael pierzga]

Books imply money.

Everything I know , someone else taught me for free.

This means that i would be selling something that doesn't belong to me and that everything in life is for sale. A very modern concept.

I prefer to either give away things that somebody else taught me for free ....down at the pub...or on a forum.

The pub is better...free beer for each tip.......

One thing beautiful about the internet is free info.

The otherday someone asked me to look at some old high tech dynema running rigging that a guy wanted to sell him.

I had a look and it was trash...looked ok from a distance but on close inspection the strands of braided fibers were twisted from manhandling on winches....not. layed out as manufactured.
The working load of twisted dyneema yacht braid falls to 50 percent.

He didnt believe , me so i pulled up the data sheet on google....and for free i was supplied the technical survey document. http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents...fect of Twist on Braided Rope_MAR2012_WEB.pdf

 

[michael pierzga]

And then what? Do you stay moored by the stern or drag everything to the bow? Easier to pick the ball up at the bow in the first place.

As you approach the ball it disappears from view. When you stop your boat the wind blows you away. Now your yelling at your foredeck crew and they are yelling at you....

In reverse you always see the ball...boats weathervane when stern into the wind and you can easily stay one foot away from the ball for as long as you want by clicking into reverse. Tie on...bring line to bow and you drift into position.

Then drink beer

 

[Eric Sponberg]

Thanks for all the comments -- very interesting.

The boat I am thinking of isn't supposed to be a speed machine (although I don't want a slug either ). It's a blue-water design for living on, and for traveling anywhere.

I started with the Sponberg 45 design (http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Globetrotter45.htm), and have been messing with different ideas, in particular making it a flush deck design.

Hi Gmat,
I am quite happy that my Globetrotter 45 has given you inspiration. Glad I was able to help. I think you probably answered your own question in your original post. It IS a matter of aesthetics. In order to have a flush deck AND full standing headroom, you have to have enough freeboard in the hull. Below about 45', this gets increasingly difficult to do and still have a boat that looks good. Of course, looking good is in the eye of the beholder, and many designers in the last hundred years or so have tried many different ways of doing that. Usually, you end up with the broken sheer designs of the Stonehorse type. That's all OK, but if you want an unbroken sheer AND full standing headroom, then you need to have the hull length commensurate with a high freeboard, and so the design gets longer. Generally, better looking hulls are longer for their height.

Interestingly, I have been toying with an idea for a design for a sailboat for myself, just 40' long, in which the main cabin is raised and is full width to the sheer. There are side decks only from amidships forward. The drawback of such an arrangement is that there is not a clear outside pathway from stern to bow--you either have to go over the top of the mid-body coachroof, or go through it from the inside. Those are compromises, but the point is exactly as you desire--more useable space in the middle of the boat. But it also has to look good, and therein lies the trick of yacht design--form and function, how do you play those against each other to accomplish a useable and attractive design?

Eric

 

[gmat]

I am quite happy that my Globetrotter 45 has given you inspiration. Glad I was able to help.
..
But it also has to look good, and therein lies the trick of yacht design--form and function, how do you play those against each other to accomplish a useable and attractive design?

Eric

Yes your GlobeTrotter designs did give me inspiration, especially the discussion of the free standing rig -- got me questioning all sorts of assumptions about how sail boats "should be". And again yes this form vs function tradeoff is quite difficult -- rather annoying that I can't afford a 500 foot boat and ignore this issue

 

[pdwiley]

Yes your GlobeTrotter designs did give me inspiration, especially the discussion of the free standing rig -- got me questioning all sorts of assumptions about how sail boats "should be". And again yes this form vs function tradeoff is quite difficult -- rather annoying that I can't afford a 500 foot boat and ignore this issue

Take a look at Jay Benford's 'BADGER' and 'DONNA' designs. They look good and work well. I've just been sailing on a BADGER design built by a friend of mine and the impression of internal space is quite impressive.

PDW

 

[PAR]

If looking at Jay Benford's work, in this regard, Argonauta (below) would be the more interesting.

 

[Tad]

If looking at Jay Benford's work, in this regard, Argonauta (below) would be the more interesting.

Yes, but PAR is that deck raised, or just flush??? Inquiring minds and all that......

 

[DCockey]

Yes, but PAR is that deck raised, or just flush??? Inquiring minds and all that......

Does "a raised deck" imply a discontinuity in the sheer line vs a flush deck which has a continuous sheer line? A flush deck could have a cockpit recessed into the deck, and the cockpit could extend to the sheer.

(Added) The question then arises as to what is meant by "sheer line"? A proposal for the purposes of this discussion is the sheer line is a line along the highest points on the side of the boat.

 

[PAR]

Good question and I don't think there's a reasonable answer. Is the deck raised if there's no reference to a lower sheer? If this is the case, most modern designs would be raised deck, compared to the CCA's (for examble). I think a raised deck can be flush, but also could have a deckhouse or trunk cabin in it. In my eyes, Argonauta is a raised deck design, with a pilothouse. If the sheer was broken and lowered to a more traditional height aft, you'd lose the aft cabin's headroom (which is fairly short anyway). I've just always liked this design (Argonauta).

 

[decoguy]

The Van De Stad 36 Seal has alway appealed to me. Went on a short sail on one once but have no idea how well they sail

http://www.stadtdesign.com/designs_info/list_of_designs/seal_36

Here is a link to a video of one for sale

http://vimeo.com/70400808

 

[edik]

flush deck

Works ok on a small boat. On bigger boats it is undesirable for many reasons

Gusto 44 by Ed Joy, a boat with a flush deck, is a beautiful and very functional boat.