Powering a barge like - Shottel like navigator vs V drive

Discussion in 'Pod Drives' started by yodani, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    Is there a medium speed fred. He should work in the 12 knot range.
     
  2. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    As jeff suggested. Paddle wheels might be worth considering. Ticks all the boxs for your requirements ..
     
  3. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    Hi Fred and others,

    Thanks for the contribution. I have to say that the boats operate in a harsh environment and nothing but something "industrial" would work as this is in the end a passenger boat carrying up to 25 people. The waters we are in are river murky shallow with debris and vegetation. The weather here is continental and that makes the whole thing even more difficult. That is why I was looking for a pod like solution in the first place where you can tilt the leg up in the winter when Ice comes down the river.

    An alternative to the tug we use now, it's hard to find especially considering the budget. of about 40.000EUR.

    The boat at the moment is propelled with 12km/hour and the fuel consumption is 22 liters/hour. The new engines installed on similar tugs bring the consumption down to 16 liters/hour. That is in itself a great improvement but the regulations change and soon they will not allow for our floating hotels to operate the way they do now. We will have a possibility to pay for our investment with 80% European money so I am considering these alternatives.

    Besides complicating the things we can obtain a reduction in fuel consumption and also one person less in the crew that would by itself be a great bonus.

    I have attached a couple of pictures with the boat in operation for you to see exactly what I'm talking about.

    Cheers,

    Daniel
     

    Attached Files:

  4. slow fred
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: florida

    slow fred Junior Member

    A single engine would never handle this boat in the wind and current. Steering would be ZERO.
     
  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Take a look at oil barges that have their tug pinned to the rear.

    This gives good manuverability , and may keep the local paper pushers happy.

    Here is the concept,

    Tug-Barge Couplers - Intercon
    www.intercon.com/t-tugbargecouplers.aspx
    The INTERCON COUPLER SYSTEM provides a safe and efficient solution to the problems of connecting tugs and barges in ocean and coastwise pushing ...
    Marine Articulated Tug Barges - ATB Connection System ...
    www.vesselrepair.com › Articulated Tug Barges
    For decades Bludworth lead the field in US ATB tug & barge applications. ... Pin vs. Pad options are now available as well. In 2014, John Cook retired from the ...
     
  6. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    Hi Fast Fred,

    I know the concept and you can see that I have approached the matter a year ago here on the forum in this thread:

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/articulated-tug-remote-helm-floating-hotel-51083.html

    The problem with the pusher tug is that the convoy will become a rigid hull that will be 15m longer and unable to navigate the narrow sinuous channels. The other problem is visibility that will force me to put a remote steering on the floating hotel bringing in some legal issues and technical difficulties.

    As Slow Fred says there maybe a problem with manoeuvrability when installing one single engine on board without a steerable drive. Wouldn't the bow thrusters help with that? Do they become inefficient while the boat is on the move? Schottle pumps are a great solution but they are 60.000EUR a piece...
     
  7. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Bow thrusters work at modest speeds underway.
     
  8. slow fred
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: florida

    slow fred Junior Member

    Operating a flat bottom boat of that size is usually done with the engines and not the steering.
     
  9. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

  10. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 190
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    So could anyone with experience tell me if a fixed kort nozzle with backing or flank rudders would be preferable to a steerable nozzle like the Bekcer Marine one? http://www.becker-marine-systems.com/03_products/products_becker_nozzle.html

    I think using one of this systems would give me the manoeuvrability I need with only one engine and a hydraulic bow thruster.

    Take a look at the rough drawings - do you think this kind of arrangement would work?

    Cheers,

    Daniel
     

    Attached Files:


  11. The Q
    Joined: Feb 2014
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    Location: Norfolk, UK

    The Q Senior Member

    WIth it being a hotel you are going to need a sizable Generator to keep the punters happy. so I would have thought this maybe a case for Diesel - electric keeping the weight out of the ends, use electric drive for bow thruster and forward propulsion.
     
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