Planning to build a performance cruising cat?

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by jorgepease, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. jorgepease
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Just kicking this idea around in my head.

    I'm going to be building a 50' custom Grainger cat. It's going to be built using short run molds, probably safe for 3-5 pulls. Would be nice to have one or more people interested in building the same boat so we could leverage cost of mold and get better discounts on materials.

    This would be a foam core build, infusing both hulls and bridgedeck in one shot. Tops of hulls and roof would possibly be one shot as well. All other components infused flat table.

    You would still have to pay a licensing fee to Grainger but the amount of money we can save on mold, tools, plus buying power and production style workflow should result in a decent savings in cost and time.

    I am located in Miami Fl. and plan to build in Key Largo at Catamaran Boat Yard. They have a 80 x 40 x 60' high building with roof (no walls) and a lift with 28'-4 inch capacity.

    Something to consider if you are planning to build a cat. Time frame for actual assembly would be around 3rd quarter next year but mold frames would be pre cut smaller components (daggerboards, rudders etc... infused prior.

    Cheers.
     
  2. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Is production of another 3-5 cats covered by licence purchased from the designer? ;)
     
  3. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Read my post, I mention that. ))
     
  4. Joe Green
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    Joe Green New Member

    If you are still planning this I would definitely want to build one for myself and would offer to build a few more for sale as well.
     
  5. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Hi Joe,

    Yes, I am still doing it, working on closing out all my commitments and have my house up for sale. I started another thread since then which more specifically details what I am doing - CNC Plans not Included https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/cnc-plans-not-included.56453/

    It's not your standard cruiser so I gave up on the idea of finding people to share the same mold. However one of the biggest problems I see as I get nearer to starting is the location. It's really tough to find a good, reasonably priced location. The Catamaran Boat Yard in Key Largo is at the right price but I would like to see if I can do better.

    My current idea is to be more flexible and start a boat builders club somewhere which would provide the infrastructure on these large and small projects and also leverage buying power, the price breaks on materials in volume are substantial.

    My desired location is Croatia because it gives me access to a growing charter market, the EU and very well priced materials but they have short supply of warehouse at relatively high prices. What I have been working on the last couple of weeks is looking for commercial land which I can erect temporary structures on (tents) complete with a trolley hoist and let everyone build whatever they want to build.

    So the idea is very much alive and in flux and I am getting closer to tying off all my loose ends. Where are you located?
     
  6. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    I'm also closing all my commitments out, I have the dreaded C, looking to sell everything I own and knock together a boat within the next year. Have 30 years experience in aerospace industries and boat building, qualified electronics engineer and computer programmer, I don't have the money for boat plans, unless the price is what you would pay an architect for a house design, wtf is wrong with NAs? hahaha. I want to design my own with CFD, bareback record breaker, swinging hammock, microwave and warm cabin. Something between 30ft and 50ft with 2 hard sail wings and no soft sails, must be able to roll down a 70ft wave and stay in one piece. My revolutionary design will rotate the wings under the water to act as keels in storms. Plan to use hydraulics instead of ropes. I plan to use the science that produced the sail rocket 60kts World Record boat ie. will point into the wind and not the direction of travel, foils symmetrically opposite to the COE of sail and make an offshore version.

    I have been researching and planning for the last 10 years, I was going to build it after I retired but that is no longer an option...I am planning to build a 40ft CNC machine instead of molds, like they use to build the Volvo Ocean Race boats, it will cut foam formers, do all the sanding and polishing in days instead of months I wont be needing the machine after I have finished, would be awesome if I could trade the CNC machine for building space or other assistance.
    I am going to take a 3D printer and scale it up to mill foams and boat composites, I think it's safe to say that 80% of the features of current large scale CNC machines are not needed to cut foams and thin skins of carbon, you just need accuracy which you achieve from making a nice stiff frame.What is the size of your build location, how much space covered and uncovered.
    My position is I have the money to buy my materials on a weekly basis and I can devote 15 hours a day for the next 365 days. I have a good vacuum infusion setup, with electronic leak detection and control, I can also do vacuum prepreg in a heated tent.Expert on spraying and repairing gelcoat to Lyods spec. I am going to build aerospace style, no mast or rigging wires etc,rather foils, fuselage and wings. I have lots of experience in hydraulics and industrial control systems, I will rig all the controls using standard cheap off the shelf hydraulic stuff before they stamp marine on it and charge an extra 500%. It will have a waterproof cabin which is also a survival pod, though I am thinking of skipping that now hahaha, well the plan was to have the cabin a triple thickness of carbon covered with Aramid(bullet proof, rock penetrating proof) and use submarine foam, so in the worst of emergencies you could pull/blow the bolts for the wings and amas, wait for the storm/emergency to pass, then use an emergency kite to pull the floating cabin to safety. Nah I will stick with it because it solved the problem of keeping the multi-hull structure very strong, I incorporated the cabin into the crossbeams, instead of using the cabin as part of the beam I am going to use the beam as part of the cabin. Anyway when this boat hits the water, I will string a nice double hammock in the cabin with springs not rope, for shock absorbing warm dry sleep and a GPS and I am GO!!! On more than one occasion I have been on boats where everyone was praying to their Gods...the worst thing in the world is to not have confidence in your boat, you could have purchased it for $500000 but you don't really know whether it is going to stay together if you have 50ft waves breaking around you, but if you built it yourself and you rigged up a test piece to a crane and you watched it break at 1000kg and that means that a column of water 50ft could rest on that area, that is piece of mind that no amount of money can buy. There is no way I am going the Southern Ocean with something I did not build myself, it's only going to be fun if you know there is nothing to fear because you made there nothing to fear, not hoping on a prayer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  7. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member


    Sounds good, I am still waiting on the Engineers, it's taking them longer than they said )). The hot wire machines are kind of cool and cheap, they could be used to create a plug, just a thought. The location is the biggest consideration for me. In about 6 months I am quitting my job and moving to St Petersburg Fl where I will be doing some investing and hopefully find a place to build the boat.
     
  8. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    I got prices today, I have found an engineers who can mill the foam from a CAD file, that's all they do, make foam molds. Price should be competitive, I hope, the servos and stuff to make a CNC milling machine for foam are only about $1000. I don't know what it is about marine engineering that they charge such crazy prices, must be used to millionaires, you can get an aircraft fixed for cheaper than boats. Hot wire is good for foils and pieces but to do a 40ft hull with a complex shape will be mission impossible. It also looks like I will buy the foam and carbon direct from the manufacturer, local prices are stupid. I need to push on now to the CFD, calculate the forces involved, the layup required and then order my panels and carbon fiber. Well good luck finding a place, what Grainger design are you going to base your custom boat on? If I had the money I would just buy one of his kits. Try and get a location with aircon if you can, moisture in the air weakens your resins and trying to work with them in temps more than 25 degrees is a nightmare, you will die in a full body suit and gas mask working in high temps.
     
  9. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    I ended up with my own design )) 76 footer, I like it very much. Good luck to you!!!
     
  10. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    76 footer, do you have a big family, how are you going to crew it?
    Do you have pics ?
     
  11. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    It's a very spartan boat with some unique features )), yes will be crewed but only requires 2 people and can be single handed if need be. I have a few renders on this computer
    render120.jpg render121.jpg render122.jpg
     
  12. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Awesome, you also going for 2 sails. Nearly all my accidents on boats have been mast/rigging related. I lost the use of one of my arms for a year after falling through the rigging on a capsize. I hate stay wires, they will slice you like cheese when you are falling, noisy crappy 19th Century technology hahaha Solid wing sails are the way to go, if one breaks you can kick the pieces overboard and carry one. But that is the problem sailing a big boat solo, if the sail jams up and a storm is coming or the mast breaks and you have to cut away rigging on your own, then you are in the dodo. So what you going to use it for, why are all those seats on the back are you going t use it for fishing or scuba?
     
  13. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Yeah I also hate rigging, didn't think about the slicing aspect of it but that too. So yeah two masts, entry through rear of hulls, all electric no backup generator, very little build out. I like open space the hulls have an aspect ratio of about 18 and we are shooting for between 10-12 tons which includes 2 tons of battery. The seats tilt from forward or from back, I will have a projector under the roof so in the middle of the ocean I can watch a movie lol or face them back and just lounge. Yes I have great space for fishing but I just want to travel and be completely off grid and off fossil fuels. The hard part is getting my girl to go along. lol )))
     
  14. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Arghhhh!!! no. I broke off an engagement over sailing, I realised she was only ever going to sail to appease me and I didn't want to love someone because of who I hoped they would become and not who they actually are...sailing is weird, you can never tell who will take to it and who wont, I have had body builder football players who left the boat covered in bruises and white as a sheet then 5' 3" petit young women who smash it out the court. I find it's best to give the nervous or not keen types the helm, for a lot of people being the one in control makes them feel a lot less helpless and can turn a bad day around.
    You seem to be building a boat in the same sort of style I want mine to be. I also want to try something different a prefer large open spaces and lots of light and air, don't like cluttered with all mod cons, check this awesome floating home I am going to use for ideas on my boat. I like the way this does not look like the inside of a yogurt cup and the wood has a modern feel to it, You could get a thin real maple veneer and add it to your final lamination on the inside instead of gelocat. It's perfect for me because my cabin will point into the wind so it needs to be as streamlined and symmetrical as
    possible and this shape is as close as you get.

     

  15. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    women come second lol!! ... Im actually compromising with my girl. Im going to build her a home base and told her she doesn't have to do any crossings, she can fly and then do the coastal thing. That's a sweet video, I like the light finishes as well, that is where it's at today. I agree on the clutter, hate it, every boat I checked out at the boat show was so loaded down with plastic looking cabinetry, I guess it's their way of quickly finishing the interior. I have a space designated for everything and nothing else is welcome aboard ))
     
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