CNC Plans not Included

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by jorgepease, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    One of the designs I was looking at is the Schionning GForce 1500C. I just learned that they don't provide the CNC plans because of copyright concerns and they also want to be sure the materials used are to spec.

    Do any of the designers provide CAD files? I am not interested in kit boats.

    Thanks
     
  2. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

  3. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Thanks for the links, I didn't see anything that really suits me on that site. Bruce Roberts has a 19 meter cat with cut files, but that's is too big, I can afford around 15 meter.

    I see that Kurt Hughes has some old designs which he is selling again. The 48' performance cat looks close to what I am looking for. He doesn't say anything about cnc plans but on the other hand they are only $7500 compared to around $25,000. Going to research his boats a little and see how people feel about them.

    Might make sense to go that route and just hire a CAD guy to make me some cut files.
     
  4. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Tony Graingers plans are priced by quotation depending on the build method, that includes cutting files. Should be worth an enquiry.
     
  5. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Thanks, going to send him an email right now. I do like their cats!!
     
  6. Tom.151
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    Tom.151 Senior Member

    If it's Hughes "cylinder mold" design, it might be cost effective to hire a small crew to build or help you build the mold (easy) and then layup the panels also easy onec the mold is built.

    Kurt Hughes would definitely fall into the skilled/knowledgeable multihull designer category.
     
  7. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    I will see what Grainger says first, like those boats. Then Hughes and also Mike Waller. He has a design out of strip cedar that comes with the cut files for only $1700 ... Would probably cost extra for foam scantlings.
     
  8. HydroNick
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    HydroNick Nick S

    This doesn't directly answer your question but might be useful:

    You might also want to look at the Lavranos designed Proteus 10.6

    http://www.lavranosyachtdesign.co.nz/sc_10m-multi.htm
    www.ckdboats.com/proteus10.html

    The quote I got from CKD Boats indicated that the cost of the CNC cut marine ply kit FOB South Africa was going to be a lot less than the marine ply required, purchased in Canada...So, I surmised you can get a complete CNC cut kit catamaran delivered at your door for about the same cost as the required pile of marine ply. CKD also cut some of the cool looking Dudley Dix catamarans and they were doing some of the Bernd Kohler K-Designs catamarans (power and sail I think).

    There was also another individual producing pre-cut Eco 5 power cats (K-Designs) where each piece was cut in manner that allowed the parts to be tabbed together before gluing and taping the seams after which the tabs were cut and sanded off; unfortunately, I can no longer find that information, Bernd would presumably know.
     
  9. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Some pretty nice boats they have. I found a few others in ply too but I will be building in foam and infusing. I noticed Grainger boats seem to have pretty good resale value compared to some of the others.
     
  10. waynemarlow
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    Why not simply make or buy flat panels and get them cut CNC style. All in all though, just make a female former out of mdf and tile battens and lay the foam in Farrier style, works a treat, its far easier than i thought and on the bigger boats it must be a doddle.

    Do you need to infuse, probably not on foam and you may well get a heavier boat for the extra expense of the infusion process
     
  11. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Ready for the long answer :D

    I've studied all the systems and done the infuse on one side, flip and infuse the other, truly a stupid system for masochists or somebody who really can't afford the relatively low initial cost to vacuum proof the tool.

    The flat panel system makes more sense but I still don't see the time savings plus what an effort compared to just building a one-off mold and infusing both hulls and bridgedeck, both sides in one shot.

    Plus I really do like the idea of monolithic construction for strength and accuracy. I'm not an expert laminator, maybe some microscopic peelply fibers where left on the part at the join, maybe I mix the resin wrong, it's just a possibility for a fail. Also, with flat panel forming, you can cnc cut it perfectly but you are never going to attach it with the same accuracy. With a cnc cut mold I can assemble it to very near the same tolerances with a lot less effort or time.

    Using the infuse-inward system, setup is a breeze and the infusion is highly controlled. My exterior surfaces will be ready for hi-build primer and sanding. And the reason I like foam, regardless that wood is just as good or better, is because people think foam is better.

    Last boat show I went to, I lost count of all the signs that said No Wood lol!! That said I doubt wood on a 50' boat is going to come out lighter than foam core. If it does it won't be by much.

    Anyway, back to CNC, I still need the CNC cut files whatever system lol. I'm waiting on Grainger to get back to me with fingers crossed.
     
  12. HydroNick
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    HydroNick Nick S

    I don't want to hijack your thread Jorge - so if you want to have this deleted or move it to a new thread, fair enough; but, that thing about "No Wood" being a good thing. I posted some of this as a response to a post on the Facebook page "The Multihull Appreciation Society"...(worth joining btw).

    Rather than having light fast trimarans with balsa or foam core whose favourite environment is a nice dry boatshed, what if somebody produced a pre-cut trimaran in Gougeon style epoxy marine plywood like the Gougeon's Adagio "Still formidable after 46 years"...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z1TfoT7vPw

    http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/tag/adagio/

    ...and which has not required any major repairs in that time. (They are only now replacing the centreboard trunk). The balsa or foam core mutihulls are awesome to sail (I own one); however, Adagio just won the Mackinac race - again - so even with "heavy" plywood, and a 46 year old boat (50 year old design?) still has it going on: Kurt Hughes? Richard Woods? Ian Farrier? Angelo Lavranos? Dudley Dix? or some combination of these luminaries....anybody?

    So continuing on (boring on my wife might say), I think that there is a vast disservice to the consumer when the industry is saying that balsa and foam cored composite is the only way to go. By the way, in the Proteus 10.6 (link provided earlier) Lavranos has managed to do away with the interior chine logs so the interior is more akin to foam or balsa cored materials.

    Finally, I made some enquiries with Nicolas Gruet about his Ekolo'kat 33 which was proposed as a being ply cored catamaran but he had at that stage moved on to the Ekolo'kat 34 which is foam cored saying it was a better option.

    http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/design/ngdesign/ekolokat.html
    http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/design/ngdesign/ekolo34/index.html

    To my eye, they are both great looking catamarans. With all respect to someone that knows far more about boat design than me (he would have to frankly)...where does the foam core advantage lay? Is it: the construction; the weight; the cost to build; the resale value because the industry has managed to convince the consumer that marine ply (an awesome material) is an inferior material; or, is the longevity of foam cored boats expected to be better than the 46 years, and still going, of the ply cored Adagio?

    I would sure like to know.
     
  13. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Nick; Plywood got a bad name pre epoxy when it was coated with red lead, house paint, boiled linseed and other concoctions, I fear it never recovered.

    I'm not a lover of balsa, foam while being seen as rot proof has plenty of weaknesses, delamination and water saturation especially.
    Any material poorly built will cause problems, any material built well can have a long useful life.
    It's about lowest common denominator and probability, foam is seen to the less risk. But it's not without risk. IMHO.
    If I was building timber I would use Paulownia, basalt fibre and epoxy, if I was going composite I would seriously look at Polycore, basalt and either vinyl ester or epoxy.
     
  14. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Please don't misunderstand, I don't have any attachments to foam or wood, I see the trend and go with it because I plan selling and building more of these and wood, over here, makes it harder to sell.

    BTW Tony Grainger got back to me. It's a long email because I requested some mods but he sounds like the type of guy I would like to deal with.
     

  15. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    materials

    Jorge, since I used to be a boat dealer and live in the southeast US, I totally agree that foam makes a lot of sense, and I am very interested in Granger details-I like what I see of his new tris.
    Since I own both a epoxy/wood tri as well as a mostly foam core/glass tri, in my experience wood takes a lot more upkeep here in the eastern US. Our very humid conditions, combined with our freeze/thaw cycles, open up any wood structure.
    I really admire Adagio and other wood/epoxy boats, but up north, they stay out of the water and covered half of the year, unlike our all year use. My boats get frozen, baked, and used hard. ;) Power boats that can be stored covered have an easier life, but sailboats need to be very durable to survive.
    B
     
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