Liza Jane, steel 20' sailboat

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Laurentiu, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. Laurentiu
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: România

    Laurentiu Junior Member

    Good day everybody. I want building a Atkin boat ,metal , 20' ,"Liza jane" , but Atkins company don't can tell my much about this project.
    1200 lbs ballast , LOA 20" [6m] and metal 12 gauge for body"are everything I now about that boat.
    I calculate metal surface necesary from building and rezult aprox 35-40 mp steel plate 2,5mm [12 gauge] and rezult aprox 700-800 kg for body.[1540-1760 lbs] Total weight is aprox. 1300 kg [3000 lbs]
    Now everybody more about this boat ?
     

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  2. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    What did they include in the plans?
     
  3. Laurentiu
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    Laurentiu Junior Member

    I don't have yat the plan. I took about describe the boat on site
     
  4. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Without plans, you're not going to garnish much information, other then the web site fluff and basic dimensions. Considering the plans are $65 (USD) you'd be well advised just to buy them. This said, I hope you have considerable building skill, as Atkins plans are very basic and make many assumptions, about the builder having a pretty good idea what to do. Lastly this boat is about 3 times as heavy as a boat of similar dimension, built using more modern materials and methods. This boat is quite burdened and the best it'll ever do is 5 knots, so I hope you're not in a hurry to get anywhere quickly. She's also going to feel very tender initially, particularly if you have most of your sailing experience, on modern sailboats.
     
  6. d1970
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    d1970 Junior Member

    Hai noroc. Asculta pe PAR, cumpara planul ca-ti va fii mult mai usor.

    Good luck with the build!
     
  7. Laurentiu
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    Laurentiu Junior Member

    Hi. I need to now first: draft , dry weight and capability for sea of the boat .
     
  8. Laurentiu
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    Laurentiu Junior Member

    PAR. I think is just like you sade , Liza Jane it is not a speed boat. But I want to now first if that thing is realy compensate with a good demeanor on the waves and that it is not on the building plan.
    Black See are shorts and hi' wave and around/flat botom like TLC 19 [D.D.], [speed boat], plus a minimum weight are not too good from here
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    To evaluate the design you'll need to look closer at what she is and unfortunately, the web site information, just doesn't offer much to help. Some things can be assumed, from the scant information that is provided.

    For example if you scale the lines, you'll find she's about 20' on deck, her beam about 7' 6" and her draft approximately 3'. I find it amazing the basic dimensions aren't provided, but there you go . . . Assuming that Billy remained true to form and 25 - 30% is her ballast ratio (likely closer to 25%), the best you can hope for is a pretty hefty D/L, probably in the 300's. Her sail area looks to be in the 250 sq. ft. range, so you're looking at a SA/D in the 15's, which is quite modest. Her steep deadrise will offer little resistance until you have 15 degrees of heel, but she'll firm up pretty quickly after that. Her motion in a steep sea will be what you should exspect of a heavy, short, steep deadrise boat.

    The obvious thing to do is send Pat and email and ask about the basic dimensions and her general characteristics in the conditions you'd exspect. This said, consider you're looking at a design that is over 3/4's of a century old and we've learned quite a bit about how thing handle since then and developed much better shapes. It's one thing to have a stout boat and one that will be relatively comfortable underway, but building a 75 year old antique should be seriously reviewed against what more modern, deep water designs can offer.
     
  10. Laurentiu
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    Laurentiu Junior Member

    Thank you PAR.
     
  11. rwatson
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

  12. Laurentiu
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    Laurentiu Junior Member

    I'm interested about three project boat. The speed is not important . In my country exist a folk song about Ulise and he's voyages :
    .............
    "the shore dont have any fanny
    can luxuriate dont are brave"
    only travel is interesting ".........and in that ideea it's important to be in travel more about the destinatiosn or when arrive.

    My short list is Flika 20 [dont exist plan for home building] , Swaggie by J.Westford but is not posible building in steel and Liza J.

    All three are hevy and short boats
     
  13. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    This design is brought up in John Atkins' book PRACTICAL SMALL BOAT DESIGN. The design displacement is actually 4,100 lbs (1,863 kg) The ballast is 1,200 lbs (545 kg). The Beam is 7 ft (2.13 m). The draft is 2 ft, 11 inches (0.89 m). And the SA is 194.4 sf (18.1 sm), giving it an S/D of 12.2.

    The one criticism I might have for the design ( I love John's work) is that the deep fore foot es expected to act as a cut water. Sailed level, it probably does. But as the boat heels, the forefoot will probably lose its grip sooner than the large skeg (which acts as a keel) behind it will. This could cause the boat to fall off, when hard pressed, rather than round up, like sailors of more modern designs are used to.

    I believe there was a thread on another boat of similar design that had that fault. A cut water was laminated onto the fore foot to cure it, IIRC.

    Certainly a boat with a fin keel and a greater ballast/displacement ratio would perform better. But the fin keel will mean either a different, flatter, bottom type or much more draft. Also, much of the hull material weight is in the bottom of a deep dead rise boat, such as this, and can be counted as ballast.

    Without a fin keel, a center board will certainly improve performance, especially a deeper, high Aspect ratio one. But it would require deeper sailing waters and an intrusive trunk. That's pretty much the extent of improvements from what we've learned over the last 3/4 of a century. Other than that, this is probably a reasonably good design, where rugged simplicity and reasonably shoal sailing draft is valued over speed and up wind performance.

    Its greater heft will probably make dealing with a short choppy sea more endurable, as it will not be stopped by it, as much as a lighter, more "scientifically" designed boat will.

    If it were my boat, I'd add a cut water that followed the curve of the fore foot, but extended from it maybe 3 or 4 inches (7.6 - 10.2 cm). This could be made simply out of a flat steel plate, cut to shape and welded on. I would cut it off, on the bottom, to continue a base line extending from the bottom edge of the keel. This way the boat could sit on its bottom on a low tide.
     
  14. Tanton
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    Tanton Senior Member

    Bigger but better.
     

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  15. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    rwatson Senior Member

    That's a really workable plan. In steel I presume ?

    edit - Strange site, Your catalogue list isnt sorted by plan number, size, or type of construction. Really hard to peruse

    http://www.tantonyachts.com/catalogue.htm
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
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