Help me find a boat: 26ft planing centerboard wood sailboat?

[griffinb]

The Raven's yardstick translates to about 194 PHRF, which gives us a ballpark.
Jollenkreuzers

The Uffa Fox Flying 20

Of course the quickest thing that would fit the rules would be a Thames A Rater, but you may want to revert to the older and lower rig;

Thanks for finding the Jollenkeuzers, Thames A Raters, and Renjolle! 3 new ones for me to check out!

Just last night I found the Flying 20. It sounds like only one was made, and it's in a museum? Also, it has a fixed keel, instead of a centerboard?

Another I found is the Thousand Islands Yacht Club One Design, which apparently does have a centerboard, but I can't find a sketch/photo of the underbody to see if it looks like a centerboard racer, or full-keel cruiser with a little board.

Anything 26' loa, wood, and without modern features (hard chines, open transom, full beam to the stern, etc) should be allowed.

I'm still hoping to buy something used...

 

[wet feet]

Well,if we take into account some of the more adventurous designs from Europe for less exposed stretches of water,you could possibly find something from the Geneva region.The Bol D'Or regatta does see some floating expressions of free thinking.

 

[griffinb]

Well,if we take into account some of the more adventurous designs from Europe for less exposed stretches of water,you could possibly find something from the Geneva region.The Bol D'Or regatta does see some floating expressions of free thinking.

Looks fast, but not a historic design, and (probably?) not wood.
Maybe a centerboard, at least?
Also, hard chines and open transoms aren't allowed on non-historic designs.

I should have mentioned sooner, but the race is on Nantucket Sound. So, not offshore, but not as flat as a habor/river/lake.
Typical conditions are 1-2 ft seas.

 

[wet feet]

No chines would eliminate the Fairey Fox.

 

[griffinb]

The Opera House Cup is open to the following sailboats:

26'0" min LoA,

"wood or wood-based cold molded hulls",

And to the following divisions:

• Vintage: ‘V’ Yachts designed before January 1, 1950 and built, maintained, and restored with materials and methods consistent with the original design.
• Classic: ‘C’ Yachts designed on or after January 1, 1950 whose rudders are attached to the trailing edge of the keel with at least one pivot point on the sternpost, and that are rated by CRF with Keel Type 5 or Type 6.
• Modern Classic: ‘MC’ Yachts designed on or after January 1, 1950 and typically before January 1, 1975, whose rudders are separated from the trailing edge of the keel and that are rated by CRF as Keel Type 3 or Type 4.
• Spirit of Tradition: ‘SoT’ Yachts typically designed on or after January 1, 1975 whose rudders are separated from the trailing edge of the keel and that are rated by CRF as Keel Type 1,2,3, or 4, and whose design embodies an appreciation of classic yacht or traditional workboat shapes and aesthetics. There are no restrictions on rigging, equipment, or construction materials and methods for Spirit of Tradition (SoT) yachts.

So, IF the Fairey Fox were 26'0", since it was designed before 1950, it would be eligible in the Vintage Division.

If I were to take the Fairey Fox design, stretch it 1.5ft to 26' LOA, then it would be a new design, and would need to go in the "spirit of tradition" division, which prohibits hard chines.

So, I'm basically looking for a 26'0", centerboard, wooden sailboat design that already exists. Because if I have to design my own, then I have more restrictions.


I could build a custom, stretched 26'0" adaptation of a pre-1950 design, but that's a lot of time/money/effort to create a boat that may be rejected because it's not clearly a Vintage design, and doesn't satisfy Spirit of Tradition criteria.

Here's a rundown of what we have so far:
Raven - too short
Fairey Fox - too short
E Scow – too long (for me to get a mooring)
Alerion 26 – not centerboard.
Flying 20 – only one built, and in a museum, and not centerboard?
Ipswitch Bay 26 – zero built, post-1950 design?
Thames A Rater – not suited to 1-2 ft chop, and none available in USA?
Atalanta 26 – too slow. Maybe none left.
Jollenkreuzer 20er – promising. but none available in USA?
Thousand Islands Yacht Club One Design – Promising. I can’t tell if it was centerboard? None left?
Renjolle – promising. but none available in USA?

 

[Rumars]

The problem I see is that you want a planing sailboat designed before 1950, and a very specific lenght. I am not aware of any 26' planing sailboats designed before 1950. If you drop the planing requirement you can look for sandbaggers, they are fast (for displacement boats), have centreboards and are most definitely vintage. You would probably have to build one, there are few originals left.
Pt 1.4: The Sandbaggers https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/519/

 

[Will Gilmore]

The problem I see is that you want a planing sailboat designed before 1950, and a very specific lenght. I am not aware of any 26' planing sailboats designed before 1950. If you drop the planing requirement you can look for sandbaggers, they are fast (for displacement boats), have centreboards and are most definitely vintage. You would probably have to build one, there are few originals left.
Pt 1.4: The Sandbaggers https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/519/

I was thinking of sandbaggers too, but I didn't know they were center boarders. Lighten the crew requirements and they will probably plane quite easily.

Griffinb, can the rigging be played with in the classic classes? You mentioned that the Atalanta 26 was too slow. Looking at her photograph, I had the impression she was under powered. Maybe cutting some roach into the sail with battens and adding five more feet to the mast, raise the forestay closer to the masthead to add a bigger heads'l, would improve her performance. She probably could be lightened up quite a bit, too.

Here's one for sale in BC Canada.
http://www.aurorawoodwork.com/Tenga.htm

There seem to be plenty around with an active class association.

Not exactly planing, but going pretty fast.

 

[griffinb]

The problem I see is that you want a planing sailboat designed before 1950, and a very specific lengtht.

Yes, the very specific length is one of the big challenges.
Good suggestion on the Sandbaggers. Thanks for the link. Great history lesson.
I really do want something that will plane, and I got excited when I saw the Raven, which checks every box, but is only 18" too short...

 

[griffinb]

I was thinking of sandbaggers too, but I didn't know they were center boarders. Lighten the crew requirements and they will probably plane quite easily.

Griffinb, can the rigging be played with in the classic classes? You mentioned that the Atalanta 26 was too slow. Looking at her photograph, I had the impression she was under powered. Maybe cutting some roach into the sail with battens and adding five more feet to the mast, raise the forestay closer to the masthead to add a bigger heads'l, would improve her performance. She probably could be lightened up quite a bit, too.

Technically, to stay in the Vintage or Modern Classic classes, I would not be able to modify the rig. I bet I could swap lines, hardware, etc. But if the sail and spar measurements deviated, I could get bumped.

The Atalanta 26 does look underpowered, and from the link you sent, they admit as much.

 

[Steve Clark]

If you can put up with a keel, the 210 is probably a very good solution.
Design is old enough. There are still some woodies. Are generically faster than most sit on the edge 3-4 person keel boats.
Ross Weene stuck a stern extension on a 110 to make it long enough the Egg McMuffin Reach Regatta many years ago. The good people thought highly enough of Ray Hunt's revolutionary design to lower the minimum length to 25" so the foolishness wasn't necessary.

SHC

 

[griffinb]

If you can put up with a keel, the 210 is probably a very good solution.
Design is old enough. There are still some woodies. Are generically faster than most sit on the edge 3-4 person keel boats.
Ross Weene stuck a stern extension on a 110 to make it long enough the Egg McMuffin Reach Regatta many years ago. The good people thought highly enough of Ray Hunt's revolutionary design to lower the minimum length to 25" so the foolishness wasn't necessary.

I admire the looks of the 210, and the used ones seem a better bargain than most of my list.
BUT, keel instead of centerboard, AND it's too long, at 29.83 ft.
I need LOA of 26'

 

[CT249]

The sandbagger link that Rumars posted was to my blog. also pieces about Renjollen and Raters in there.

Ben Fuller, classic boat expert and former head of the Mystic Seaport museum, has written that they towed a sandbagger at speed and it just dug a bigger hole for itself rather than looking anything like planing. Like the Sydney 18 Footers until about 1930, which had a similar hull shape, they are a displacement hull. Some of the replica Historical 18s went to the USA to race the replica sandbaggers and the 18s won fairly easily. Those Historical 18s would probably rate about 200+ PHRF from what I can see and looking at their comparative speed, but I've only sailed on or against them a couple of times.

The problem is that with the technology of the "classic" era it was very hard to make a planing boat of 26' LOA. The Flying 20 has a fairly shallow keel and I think it's the closest you'll get, apart from a Thames Rater. I'm assuming you can find a 26' Thames Rater; some are midway between Half Raters (about 23' LOA) and One Raters (about 27-28ft LOA) from what I can recall.

I don't know why they won't let chine boats into the Spirit of Tradition; Stars, the earlier and bigger Gardner "Departure", Van de Stadts' 1949 Zeevalk, some Renjollen, some Aussie classics and cruisers like the Rudder magazine Sea Bird had chines.

 

[Skyak]

Legend has it that when the sandbagger trend collapsed on the east coast some talented designers went west and made planning sailboats that raced on lake Winnebago. What you are looking for is the grandfather of the E scow.

 

[Steve Clark]

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A wood 110 modified out of class by Tony DeLima and Forte. It has a lifting keel, which may solve your centerboard requirement. It is plenty old, I recall the original sail number as under 100, so maybe 1939.
How is LOA measured? does it include the fixed bow sprit? if so you are in.
If not, 110s are 23"11 3/4" LOA, so you will have to create a strap on clipper bow to make it long enough.
This boat is for sale, but it has things like carbon fiber mast and boom and keel strut. So the scrutineers may not be pleased because you will definitely be skirting the intent of the rules.
SHC

 

[Rumars]

This is not vintage, but may qualify for spirit of tradition. 26ft 2.9in (8m) long, centreboard, plywood, spruce rig. Available new from: Occasionen - Bootsbau Stefan Züst https://holzboot.ch/holzboot-occasionen/