exploded battery

Discussion in 'Electrical Systems' started by CDK, Apr 30, 2015.

  1. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    That seems to be the right description, I googled it and found some interesting stuff . . . :idea:

     
  2. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    As a 1100Ah 12v battery bank six 1100Ah 2v batteries in series would be much better configuration.
    BR Teddy
     
  3. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    Barry, check your specs. I bet you have don't have 1100 Amp hour batteries. They would weigh about 700 pounds each (the five together, maybe?). An 8d 12 volt battery is only about 250Ah. What is the battery series? What is the MCA (CA or CCA), and reserve capacity in minutes.
     
  4. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    He surely meant five paralled making together 1100Ah..
     
  5. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Barry Senior Member

    BCI Group Number Specialty
    Height with Terminal 12.6 in
    Width 4.9 in
    Length with Rib 22.0 in
    Weight 128 lbs
    Terminal Configuration Bolt in
    Pulse Cranking Amps 2,150 A
    CA/MCA Rating at 32°F 1,700 A
    Cold Cranking Amps at 0°F 1,400 A
    Cold Cranking Amps at -20°F 992 A
    Reserve Capacity 400 min
    Capacity - 20 Hour Rate 185.8 Ah
    Capacity - 10 Hour Rate 176.5 Ah
    Internal Resistance 2.7 mΩ
    Short Circuit Current 6,000 A
    Warranty 2 years full

    Attached is the battery spec. These are Northstar AGM 400, times 5
    Good snag Phil, somehow this was the number that stuck in with me, but obviously incorrect.

    But the situation is much worse than I expected as the short circuit current is 6000 amps and pulse crank is 2,150 amps

    So if each battery trying to charge the dead cell shorted battery, it would have the availability of somewhere between 24,000 amps (4x6,000) to 8,600 amps (5X2150)
    These are serious numbers and leads me to believe that the dead cell shorted battery would not draw this much current as there would be an immediate meltdown of any wires in the loop.
     
  6. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Hi Angelique,

    Hey, we didn't have such a dumb idea after all :)

    This is a type of "magnetic Latching Relay" but I have never seen one like that with that current rating before. I used small ones in automation systems I built for broadcast transmitter sites, back in the pre-microcomputer dark ages.

    So these days an Arduino with current and temperature sensors could control this type relay and manage a battery bank well. Hmmm...
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  7. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Terry,

    Here Rufus has an 23:51 min talk about one, I didn't watch it yet, maybe there's some good information in it . . ? ?

    I like the idea of changing the polarity of the current on the solenoid to let it switch to the other position like shown in this video. So you don't need a second solenoid to do that like I previously suggested. I don't know if this polarity change works for all, and of course you need a different power source to do it. I wonder though if the reset also can be done manually, and which button or handle has to be operated to do it, I don't see any manually reset option on these devices . . :confused: -- see P.S. --

    Here some other big ones, but most for less money -- link $10.24 -- link* -- link* -- link** --

    * both are the same article but different price: ‘‘ 150A CONTINUOUS / 300A IN RUSH ’’ - - - ** ‘‘ 200 AMP CONTINUOUS ’’

    [​IMG]
    - - ** picture from last above link - -

    I don't know the jargon so I looked it up, pretty small stuff I saw, and new ones even smaller I guess . . :)


    Sounds good, maybe also let it guard voltage to protect the batteries against an on the loose charger and prevent overcharging and over-discharging of each battery apart.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    P.S. - Referring to the so to see lack of a manual reset option on the latching battery disconnect relays...
    Maybe it needs to mount a push-button switch between the battery and the solenoid in order to enable a manual reset and for the start up from a zero power to the system situation . . ? ?
     
  8. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Another battery slowly died

    After removal of the remnants and rinsing the acid away I temporarily connected one of my oldest batteries to the bank. This Varta 70AH has never been in actual use, it was installed in my boat as a last resort in case we would be marooned somewhere and the other batteries were too far discharged to start the diesels. It was kept charged for more than 12 years through a diode, so it never experienced the full power of the alternators.

    The label says "Varta black dynamic E13" and there are no provisions to check the electrolyte level and no "magic eye" to indicate its condition, but before I connected it the open voltage was 12.8V.
    Yesterday one end of the white plastic case was slightly warped and felt warm, while the other members of the bank, two 120AH and one 100 AH were cold. The 30 Amp fuse was not blown, the bank voltage was 13.2V, but I'm a bit weary of battery surprises since the explosion, so I removed it at once.

    Within half an hour the bank voltage rose to 14.0V, while the isolated battery only had 2V left!
    So in a parallel bank with fuses to each member, one dud can still bring the performance of the whole bank down. You need to check on a regular basis or install an intelligent system that does it for you.

    I do not believe in big ugly relays with or without magnets. There are plenty of semiconductors on the market, like the Vishay SUM120N4 that can carry 120 Amps continuous and over 400 Amps peak, priced at approx. $ 2.00. Combined with a small microcomputer that gets input from temperature and current sensors a reliable monitoring system can be built for less than $ 100.
     
  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Wow... seems to be just in time to prevent an other explosion . . :eek:

    Nice thing you measured so much valuable data before, during and after the replacement battery was in the bank [​IMG]

    Yes, the semiconductor solution sounds better . . :)
     
  10. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    CDK retired engineer

    This white battery was the subject in another discussion on this forum several years ago, where I maintained that a battery that was kept charged could virtually live forever, while others said it would still deteriorate and fail when it was ever needed. This event proved me wrong :mad:

    Batteries in a bank should be of the same type, capacity and age, that is common knowledge. But should I now throw away the 3 others that are still performing well? I am reluctant to do so.
     
  11. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Maybe build a hydrogen plant, buy a fuel-cell and throw away the batteries . . ;)
     
  12. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Wet cell batteries have to be used and the electrolyte circulated to prevent shorts between the plates. If a battery just sits, eventually there is a buildup of oxide on the plates. The more/closer the plates (i.e. higher amp and smaller factor of the battery), the sooner the build-up connects and the cell shorts. For this reason, and for dissipating H2, most large wet cells (like submarine batteries) have air agitation to prevent oxide buildup.

    See here...http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it
     
  13. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Shipboard batteries HAVE some mechanical agitation!

    BUT my home-backup 12V batteries?? Should I periodically move them / tip back & forth? Other ideas??
     
  14. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The Battery University* has 26 hits for ‘‘vibration’’ (put it in the ‘‘Search For’’ window in the upper right corner), maybe there is a good tip . . ? ? ?

    * Thanks for the link Jehardiman

    Windows tip: hit the keys ‘‘Ctrl’’ and ‘‘F’’ simultaneously and fill in ‘‘vibration’’ in the search window, that appears in the upper left corner of the screen, to find the word on the page.

    P.S. - Found here 35 hits for ‘‘vibration’’ on the Battery University site.
     

  15. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    So, in this respect wet cell batteries are kinda like muscles, use them or lose them . . :idea:
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
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