Boat Build/Digital Project - Feedback Wanted!

[kerosene]

On piece of feedback I have generally about things like you have in mind:

We do NOT need non professional and potentially bad advise. The world is full of amateurs of different fields who choose to skip experience gathering and decide to be mentors right away. Skipping the part where you actually learn is common and really problematic and unfortunately really common. With youtube and internet ANYONE can be a mentor - even the ones giving absolutely horrible advice.

So I don't think you should be creating the content yourself if you area person with no/limited boat building experience. Designing the "user experience" - fine. Though even there I think you will be hard pressed to come up with good solutions if the topic is new to you.

And online communities (this, woodenboat forum etc.) offer already really good support for amateurs, for free. I have hard time seeing your vaguely hinted idea as a business opportunity.

 

[Skyak]

Hello Everyone,

Glad to see my post has engendered such lively discussion.

I want to make sure that boat-building skills are not lost from Ireland as they are becoming ever more rare. A good way to ensure this is to document an entire boat build process - I just wanted to get the input from you, the subject matter experts, as to how this should be best presented.

@Petros - the award I am going for is an MSc in Creative Digital Media. Thanks for asking!

@Skyak:

1) Yes, you are right, however this has everything to do with how a boat design (and build) should be documented, so your feedback would nevertheless be of value.

2) As stated, the degree is a master of science in creative digital media, in D.I.T. Aungier Street, Dublin. My name: Tim Macarthur. D12122572. Verify away.

3) As others have pointed out no personal information is requested.

@TANSL - I invite you to explain as to why the survey is stupid - by taking part in my simple survey and leaving some comments!

@ Everyone else (again, thanks Petros), I really don't have anything to gain here apart from the benefit of your experience and opinion.

I am asking for your input in good faith - I thank you for this.

Thanks Tim and welcome!
I am pretty sure everyone on this site would like to see historical boat building arts preserved. If you look around you will find incredible stores of knowledge in the old pros lurking these threads. I often wonder if it will be lost when they are gone -many are self employed and I don't see their practices being carried on. At the very least I would like to see their IP willed to some entity even if proceeds go elsewhere. You could say that this blog fills that function, but terribly. It amazes me -the cost of an hour of NA time contrasted with how much time some of these guys will spend shooting down an idea. If we could bet on outcomes there would be a lot more boats and a lot less argument.

How should it be done? Start with the SOR, statement of requirements. It may be that someone is just building a design because they like way it looks and like to build but it is important to remember the motivation. Next come resources -what does the builder think the project will take? Both of these are lively topics and I would like to see a structure for counter proposals in all cases where resources don't cover the SOR (if they do leave it to the pros). On several occasions I have gotten into tifs with pros because I offered $100 alternatives to the pros $10,000 plan. I certainly don't think I am more skilled and don't want to get in their way but in all cases it was clear that the owners were not going to spend $10k to make a minor improvement on their $8k boat.

At this point there is the inevitable -less resources than the SOR needs. The most advanced function here would be crowdfunding. I have even been mulling an idea for a site to match builders with sailors. If car, bike and home sharing are so successful, why not boat sharing? I have talents, could I get a week a year use of the boat for doing the CAD and producing the CNC cut files?

I am sure this is already more that you were considering so I will stop here.

What is the disposition of your project? Will the site be live and possibly maintained? Will you use or produce open source code? What languages are you planning to use?

 

[SamSam]

.

How is that you have 4 posts but no post count??

 

[DCockey]

I just completed the survey and saw nothing sinister about it. Clearly about interest in a video or app about boatbuilding rather boatbuilding itself.

If I was reviewing results from the survey I'd want to know how the results correlate with respondents' levels of experience and knowledge, and respondents' desire to build boats.

 

[Westfield 11]

Perhaps the OP has some new insight into how to document a boatbuilding project online, but failing that how would this be different to all the other websites documenting home builds. It's all just pictures and captions, what can he bring to the table that is any different. And if not then why bother unless it is just a vanity project (and to get college credit, too).

As far as preservation of old skills, goes, may I suggest that with all the schools, magazines, new builds of old boats, etc. the preservation of traditional skills is not in danger. In the US alone there are probably a dozen schools and apprenticeship programs, and the same number of restoration and preservation projects if not even more.

As an aside, does the world really need more underemployed traditional boatbuilders who barely make a living? I certainally would not encourage any young person to make this a career. Hobby, yes. Passion, yes. But if building traditional wood boats is your calling than go ahead, just remember that you are taking a vow of poverty too.

One question though: have you posted this over at the Woodenboat forum, and if not, why not? Seems to me that it would be a much better fit.

 

[PAR]

Sam, open forum rules (my assumption) means no rep or post counts.

The information the OP is seeking is already available. As to the development of apps and the like, well you'll need a seriously skilled staff of builders, designers and NA's to sort out the approach and application of this sort of software package, though it's not very likely a guy crawling around in a bilge, dogging down the last few hard to reach flood timber bolts will need to pull out his smart phone to look up a better way.

I think the basic issue here is a perceived need, without the understanding of what these might be. The blind, leading the blind generally bump into things a lot. Building documentation can be accomplished in one of several digital ways, resource and information retrieval can be accessed in one of several digital ways and the same is true of plans, plans purchase options and presentation, CNC and other digital to hard efforts are currently being practice, by those that have the budget. Simply put, development of these elemental and regurgitation packages are in place. Of course running any version of CAD on a pad or smart phone just isn't practical, even if capacity and input could be improved sufficiently.

There are literally thousands of videos, programs about the many and various aspects of building and their methods. Some project focus, seem to be in order.

 

[DCockey]

Looks like some different interpretations and considerable mis-interpretations of what Tim, the original poster, will be doing.

Looks to me like he will be building a traditional boat with his father who he identifies as a boatbuilder. He'll document it through a website and/app. Lots of similar projects have been documented before through magazine articles, books, videos and blogs. A website/app may offer some advantages compared to thumbing through an article or book, searching through a video or skimming though blogs for someone looking for a particular topic. I'm interested to see what Tim does.

The website/app will be used by Tim as part of the requirements for his degree in "creative digital media". The survey is probably in part to fulfill one of the requirements for the degree - consult experts and potential users of the website/app when starting the project.

I haven't seen anything from Tim about CAD or CNC.

I haven't seen anything from Tim indicating that how to design a boat will be part of the project.

 

[cliffoney]

Hello Everyone,

There has been a lot of opinion posited in the last few posts.

I will try and address each of the points raised since last I posted here (all the time hoping that more people will just post this subjective opinion to my survey!):

@kerosene - my family member is a professional boat builder, and has probably built more boats than most people have had hot dinners (perhaps hyperbole).

However, you must understand, this is a labour of love with someone (i.e. me) learning from a family member (i.e. someone else) how these things should be done. And documenting it. Nothing more.

I have also posted this survey at woodenboat, and they are nowhere near as tough as you guys (when it comes to making someone feel welcome!)!

What would be good though, is if you would give me your opinion as to how this process should be documented - through my handy survey! Link above!

@Skyak - Well said!

My 'want' for this whole thing is to build an 18' sailing boat with my family member who happens to know how to do this, document it, and publish it. The reason why I even posted here in the first place was to ask you, the subject matter experts, how would this 'thing' be best presented?

The idea is to build a scandinavian folk boat (in Ireland - but relevant, or am I going to get crucified for this as well?).

No worries about materials - have bought, paid and inventorised all of these in advance. Ready to report.

In terms of disposition - at the moment (based on the helpful survey feedback received so far!), it's looking like a website, if I can do it that way.

@SamSam - Nice picture.

@DCockey - Thanks.

@Westfield 11 - If it were a vanity project, I wouldn't be putting myself up to the scrutiny of the likes of yourself! Please just supply your helpful feedback to my survey (link above!). Thanks.

@PAR - The blind, leading the blind generally bump into things a lot. I would invite you to take part in my survey.

 

[PAR]

. . . @PAR - The blind, leading the blind generally bump into things a lot. I would invite you to take part in my survey . . .

I already know how to build, design, restore and repair, all using digital media and devices of some sort. Providing metadata for your subroutines seems pointless to me.

 

[cliffoney]

@PAR - thanks for your continued interest in this thread.

 

[Skyak]

@PAR - thanks for your continued interest in this thread.

To help others understand let me make a few observations that I think are key. Tim, correct me if I am wrong.

Tim is a grad student in Creative Digital Media -to graduate he will need to do a major project. This is the only thing that is absolute and will not change.

Tim has an idea for that project that has some beneficial aspects for family bonding, maybe something for Irish (boatbuilding) culture, and maybe something for us.

Tim is not trying to sell us anything. He is trying to formulate a thesis proposal and there are required elements he must demonstrate skill in. Producing successful marketable code would be great for his resume in two years, but I am pretty sure this is not his best money making idea. You don't need to talk him out of it and you don't need to talk him out of being a boat builder. We should point out the tools and sites that exist today.

For example
http://www.mysticseaport.org/
documents US boat building history -or at least the 200 yrs of European immigrants in the lower 48. I have others for Polynesian and Inuit if you are interested.

A more general project site is announced here;
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/press-releases/another-place-document-your-project-48729.html

Contrary to the consensus that there is no room for another boatbuilding site, this other thread laments the lack of good places to publish.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hydrodynamics-aerodynamics/where-publish-49826.html
Post 2 by Eric S. is particularly interesting. It seems he has blundered into the 'freemium' business model so common in internet 2.0. He states that this site is as good as it gets (high praise) and I am sure that Tim can recognize that this is THE most common basic generic blog. SOOO much to improve.

For some mainstream media perspective check out
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/al...v-opportunity-custom-boat-builders-48314.html

My opinion -there is plenty of room for improvement. I have a million ideas and will gladly give 100.