An open 8 Footer for adults?

[CT 249]

That's certainly something for the Club to keep in mind and it's a great suggestion. However, I'm not sure about the practicality of it as it does introduce a complication that will make administration very difficult or perhaps impossible. I'm trying to think of a class where such a rule is in place. Lasers do have 3 different official rigs (and a couple of established unofficial rigs), but these are all self regulating. For example you rarely see 50kg sailors sailing a Laser Standard, nor do you see 90kg sailors in 4.7s and there are no rules precluding anyone from competing in any category by reason of their weight.

If someone turns up to a regatta or club race and they are just under the weight, do they have to stand on a scale before the race and do you disqualify them because they don't have the correct rig? Bathroom scales are not calibrated, so it means the club has to invest in a proper weighing device.

Another way to go is to introduce corrector weights on the hull, but again, that's yet another complication requiring lots of administration.

I've just remembered one class that has crew weight restrictions. The International Star.

A recent windsurfer class (Kona One) has a system where rig size is related to sailor weight. As you mention, it's hard if the sailor's weight changes.

It's not hard, however, to put corrector weights in - Tasars do it regularly. The sailors step on the scales, someone looks at the dial and notes the weight on a list, and some sailors have to go and get weight which is tied in the boat.

It's not a big problem but also understandable if you choose not to go that way.

By the way, there is of course an 8' scow with excellent pedigree around for testing just a few ks from CRSC; http://www.nsc.asn.au/assets/publications/Northbridge_Junior_Plans.pdf

It's a very small boat but then plenty of American adults sail Sabots or Cape Cod Frostys.

 

[bruce nickerson]

How about something like the One Sheet Skiff:


jerrycashman.homemail.com.au/.../One%20Sheet%20Skiff.html

Very minimalist. Very cheap!

 

[WhiteDwarf]

Bruce,

If she's eight foot she is elligible. Frankly, I doubt you can get a viable racing dinghy from one sheet.

The focus is on a capable craft, not on absolute minimalism.

 

[Skyak]

CT249,

that scow looks pretty sharp, and not just literally. Without getting too complex it looks like an 8ft winner with a worthy sail rig. My only improvement would be asymmetric boards toward the edges for open class racing. My biggest concern is car-topping it would be tough to keep it from flying away.

I am very interested in handicapping dingy's. My thought is that it needs to be a function of the wind speed as well as the crew weight to account for the wind limited or righting moment limited condition. I was thinking that I might be able to determine the function empirically from the optimal weights in well established classes, but I fear that the righting moment limited case is too complex.

 

[RGBecker]

Have you considered the Mirror Dinghy?

I've got one and it is astounding how lightweight it is yet able to carry two adults and two kids. Larger than 8'...about 11'.... it weighs less than a sunfish. The Mast is two pieced and easily rigged. It stores within the boat length. Check it out. I'm told it is the largest fleet of sloops in the world with something like 350,000 built.

The rules are in place and there are fleets of racers all over the world. Surprisingly seaworthy for cold or otherwise unpleasant waters.

 

[WhiteDwarf]

RGB

We know the Mirror well, but no: the whole point of the exercise is a competitive boat that will stand on its transom behind your car in the modest parking space of a unit/apartment. The Mirror has many virtues, but it won't meet the need. Regulations require garage floors to 8 foot high, so that's the limit.

In other circumstances, an excellent design. Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[WhiteDwarf]

Less than a month to go.

To add a bit of incentive, two divisions, over 70 kg and under 70 kg.

Prizes of a GoPro ca era for each...

Hoping for sufficient wind!

 

[messabout]

CT249; The little Northridge scow is an item of interest. Can you suggest a source for a set of building plans? The PDF has a suitable set of dimensions but not building details that would be needed by a group of kids and their advisor. I assume that the reference letters NSC are; Northridge Sailing Club, but that is as far as I can guess.

I could use my own detail method but there is no need to re-invent the wheel since the Aussies have already worked out the kinks. Also there may be some royalty fees to be paid if the boat is to be faithfully duplicated. Even though the design is 50+ years old, fair is fair.

 

[WhiteDwarf]

Plans for Northbridge Junior

Messabout,

The link for plans is shown below. (If my tablet has worked properly)

http://www.nsc.asn.au/junior.php

I would be very interested to know the optimal and maximum weights for the design.

No declarations from Northbridge Juniors for the event yet, which is rather disappointing.

 

[doxiedog]

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/benjamin/stasha/index.htm

 

[waikikin]

Messabout,

The link for plans is shown below. (If my tablet has worked properly)

http://www.nsc.asn.au/junior.php

I would be very interested to know the optimal and maximum weights for the design.

No declarations from Northbridge Juniors for the event yet, which is rather disappointing.

Might be of interest..............
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sydney-region/sail-boats/northbridge-junior-hulls/1040178113

Jeff.

 

[Ben G]

Interesting exercise and all, but I don't understand why you want to invent another class when there are so many boats already out there that can fit in a car space.

Sabot's, opti's etc are 8ft or less for those who truly need a boat less than 8 ft long. You could run a heavyweight division at your club for these boats.
Cherubs are 12ft long and are a great class for mixed sailing and have a demographic that would appeal to your market. You could focus on developing a 2 piece mast for those people who need it to fit it in tight spaces. You could design a trolley for a laser which could be car-toppable and allow storage on its side, beside a parked car.

I think a person-by-person solution as opposed to the 'mass' solution would be more effective in keeping people sailing rather than inventing another new class, which will sail like a bucket of sh!!

 

[WhiteDwarf]

Response to Ben G

Ben, thank you for your input. John Spencer conceived the Cherub class you referred to, as well as the Firebug I have sailed for the last 8 years. Of the dozen or so boats I have owned in the last 50 or so years, that is about the longest. I sail a Bug because it is fun. Yeah, I know 2.4 x root waterline length, but like most good designs easy to sail, hard to sail well.

Good Spitfire pilots used to say you only have to think of a maneuver to have performed it, same for the Bug - but nothing is perfect. Aswell as a practical boat for those with restricted space, we are trying to create a space where designers can experiment without unrealistic expense.

Sabots and Optis are junior craft and rigged accordingly - no reason why adults shouldn't experiment with a larger rig. That way they might be competitive in the heavyweight division we are including.

Let's be quite clear about the intent - this is an open competition for 8 footers. We are not trying to create another one-design. If we were, your apparent scorn might be appropriate. We are simply challenging people to come up with the best possible 8 footer. Every design is a series of decisions, compromises if you wish. For small boats this is particularly stark - that is why we threw out the challenge.