A. A. Apel Plans.....Are they real??

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Tangusso, Aug 16, 2008.

  1. Tangusso
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    Tangusso Junior Member

    I have recently located a set of plans for a 135 class boat at http://www.classicwoodenboatplans.com/zephyr.htm. I am wondering if any of the more worldly members can confirm the designer of these plans. More importantly, I want to know if it was a successful design......Were many built / raced? Are there any still around? What is the history (if any) behind this design? Where can I look up some boats built to this design?
     
  2. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    People more in the know than I say the're real bad plans. I couldn't say for sure but it don't look good.
     
  3. Tangusso
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    Tangusso Junior Member

    Can you be more specific? Is there someone I might speak to that will know more about the plans or the design?
     
  4. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    Read this thread all the way through (including the links, it does get rather involved), then let me know what you think. Pay particular attention to post #25.

    If you'd like a copy of the Zephyr plans for less, try These guys or go right to the source at Toad Hall.
     
  5. Tangusso
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    Tangusso Junior Member

    Thank you for the information eponodyne. Point taken. Where do you suggest that I shop for a valid (approved by a qualified designer) set of plans with the style of something like "Zephyr". I certainly like the idea of obtaining plans that include full size patterns (cnc router files would be a nice bonus), as well as detailed assembly reccomendation for hardware and the like. I also want a proven design boating multiple existing hulls that I might travel to see.

    I am interested in considering other styles from the same era as well (mid 30's)

    Am I asking for too much?
     
  6. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    Um. That's why I posted the Toad Hall link. Otherwise, this has always been a rich source of information.
     
  7. Tangusso
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    Tangusso Junior Member

    Thank you for the info. Your point regarding the use of plans from a qualified designer makes good sense to me. I guess this still does not assure, however, that the Toad Hall plans are good. How do I know that Toad Hall plans are of a safe and accurate design? For all I know the guys at Classic used the Toad Hall plans to develop thier router files. At a glance they seem very comparable.

    Do you, or any:confused: one else following this thread, know of a reputable naval architect that may offer a similar design with a higher level of detail?
     
  8. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    I wanted to bump this thread because this seems to be the kind of question that deserves a thoughtful answer.

    How do you know if plans are of a safe and accurate design? Well, for the most part, you don't. Most of it will be by word of mouth. Old and trusted designers like William Atkin, his son John, Bill Garden, Ed Monk, Wes Farmer, Ray Bolger... that crowd... you can be sure of getting a workmanlike product. From a lesser-known designer, a person may be better off getting their plans through a "brokerage:" Someplace like D.N. Goodchild at Toad hall, for example. Duckworks is another good example; Duck Flat yet another; Svenson's. Look for photos of a finished product actually afloat, not just CG renderings of a possible boat, a Schrodinger boat. Do a lot of reading. Use your head.

    Think.

    Interestingly enough, DN Goodchild also offers plans for Appel's Zephyr, along with a CD for full-sized plans. I wonder which came first. I don't see anything wrong with the design of the boat, as such; I'd just read a number of astonishingly bad things about Classic's plans and wanted to warn that not everybody was what you might call thrilled.
     
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  9. Tangusso
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    Tangusso Junior Member

    Thank you. That is good information. I certainly agree with your approach to determining if a boat is buildable and of sound design. In reference to the Zephyr plans, I have not been able to locate pictures of an existing hull, or find an owner to speak to regarding handling characteristics, engine placement, etc. Can you or anyone else help with this? I should think that an Apel designed boat would have been produced around the time of the design, and most probably duplicated since (provided the design is authentic and successful). How might I learn moreabout possible examples of this craft?
     
  10. brucegseidner
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    brucegseidner Junior Member

    zephyr redux

    I was wondering if you have goten any further with this. I purchased the plans and the article from

    http://dngoodchild.com/divide_for_power_boats.htm

    The article and the plans are complete. Clearly this was a published article and presumably built by people. I just can't find any current examples or reviews.

    I will build up a 1:8 scale model and play with it and then seek the consultation of companies that do custom replicas.

    Stay in touch.
     
  11. RiverHorse
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    RiverHorse Junior Member

    I believe that this thread needs some new life. It is a good example to old buiders and new that all information on the net and real life can not be relied on until proven.
    I am despite the above input considering building the Zephyr. I have both the Toad hall booklet and the Classic wooden boat plans. My intersts are two fold, the boat looks good as a drawing and someone needs to build this boat and see whether it has merit.

    There are three reference points to consider (1) Building plans for forty-three small boats, the original plans that I believe has information not included in the Toad hall booklet (2) Toad Hall booklet which for $15 delivered is a great reference for those considering building this boat. The information contained is detailed but in places out of order and a little confusing, it refers to informatiom not contained. (3) The drawings from Classic wooden boat plans, they are only drawing and not plans as the have very few dimentions included. They are another great tool for building the boat as the CD included router files that can if accurate be used to make templates or actual frames. They also give you a good perspective while building the boat as well as more detail around the engine hatch, transom and seat.

    I am currently sourcing the original book and will after reading make a decision to build or not and will post my progress including the acuracy of Toad hall and Classic wooden boat resorces.

    There is probably a need for a web resourse, if there is not one already, of built examples and testimoney of plans available especially the old ones from books and magazines. Boats like Rocket and Zephyr that plans are still readly available, but no one seems to have actually built, but still capture the imagination of many amature boat builders.

    All boat builders started some where and initial failure deters people from trying again.
     
  12. RiverHorse
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    RiverHorse Junior Member

    After some net research I have found that the Zephyr plans (original) do have some pedigree. Adolf (father) and Arno A Apel (son) were engineers for Ventnor Boat Works and this design would have been a contribution to the book "Building plans for forty-three small boats".
    http://ventnorboatworks.com/customboatbuilder.html

    I also found a picture from a early catalogue that may be an example, the photo is not all that clear but the shape is similar. "1935 National Champion for 135 class".
    http://www.vintagehydroplanes.com/techart_ventnorcatalog.html
     
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  13. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Thanks for the links, RiverHorse, and welcome to the forum.
     
  14. RiverHorse
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    RiverHorse Junior Member


  15. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Attached Files:

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