Aluminum Skiff

Do you really need this motorized plough (ProDrive) ? What about jet outboard ?

montero said:

Do you really need this motorized plough (ProDrive) ? What about jet outboard ?

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I don't think a jet would like being fed mud and oyster shells.

montero said:

Products - GO-DEVIL Engines and Boats

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I don't want the air-cooled engines. They are loud and are exposed to the elements.

Had a chance to sit down and look at a few numbers. It is a conundrum for sure, something riveted like a Lund alaskan or a similar 18 foot lowe type Jon boat is going to be plus or minus 50 pounds around the 400 market. With a light weight or small outboard its going to land in the range of something most guys could push of a flat or sand bar if need be. The minimalist cope is going to land at double maybe more, guessing the pro drive is a bit north of 250 lbs as its got more attached than a straight ob. Over 1000 pounds for 18 feet isn't absurdly heavy but falls in a markedly different category of pushing around.

Kinda surprised the pro drive idea hasn't been adopted earlier and across a broader range of sizes. Seems like the surface drive off a big heavy v twin has been around long enough to try a better mousetrap.. i.e. better power to weight and liquid cooling.

comfisherman said:

Had a chance to sit down and look at a few numbers. It is a conundrum for sure, something riveted like a Lund alaskan or a similar 18 foot lowe type Jon boat is going to be plus or minus 50 pounds around the 400 market. With a light weight or small outboard its going to land in the range of something most guys could push of a flat or sand bar if need be. The minimalist cope is going to land at double maybe more, guessing the pro drive is a bit north of 250 lbs as its got more attached than a straight ob. Over 1000 pounds for 18 feet isn't absurdly heavy but falls in a markedly different category of pushing around.

Kinda surprised the pro drive idea hasn't been adopted earlier and across a broader range of sizes. Seems like the surface drive off a big heavy v twin has been around long enough to try a better mousetrap.. i.e. better power to weight and liquid cooling.

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Agreed. For my use, a 20-30 hp powerhead with a smaller surface-drive lower unit makes more sense. I just fell down the aluminum/fiberglass hybrid rabbit hole and turned up a handful of builders already blending the two materials. Fiberglass topsides usually look better, give more design freedom, feel cooler to the touch, and can even end up lighter and easier to build than sheet aluminum.

Below the waterline, those benefits fade. When a hull needs to bump rocks or scrape oyster beds, aluminum still takes the abuse better.

A couple of examples if anyone’s curious:
• Cross Boats
• Silver Boats AluFibre

A carbon-fiber cap on an aluminum hull is a highly specialized solution, but the demand is so niche it probably wouldn’t cover the tooling and production costs.

comfisherman said:

something riveted like a Lund alaskan or a similar 18 foot lowe type Jon boat is going to be plus or minus 50 pounds around the 400 market. With a light weight or small outboard its going to land in the range of something most guys could push of a flat or sand bar if need be.

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The Maine Island Trail Association has been using Lund SSV 18 aluminum outboard skiffs for over 35 years to access the approximately 200 islands along the Maine coast. Almost all of the islands require landing on a beach, peebles or rocks for access; only a few islands have piers or floats. Most of the current fleet has 30 HP Honda outboards though the newest boat has a Honda 40 HP outboard. We use one of the MITA Lund skiffs to assist with monitoring some of the islands and also own a Lund SSV 18 with a Mercury 40 HP outboard.

The islands are along the coast of Maine and the SSV 18 is large enough to handle the more open waters if care is taken. Tidal range can be up to 14 feet and the SSV 18 is light enough that it may be able to be pushed off it grounds due to the users lingering a bit too long (but not too long) when the tide is dropping.

Lund advertises the basic weight of the SSV 18 without a motor as 460 lbs. The MITA boats are heavier with an added storage compartment and some other interior modifications.

The SSV 18 hull is constructed from 3 panels, two 0.063 thick sides and a 0.100 thick bottom, and the transom. The bottom panel is split forward, folded along the keel and the forward ends are pulled together along the stem. Joints are riveted.

Video segment with MITA boats in use:

Never hear me disparage the almighty lund... western alaska in the 90s and early 2000s they must have sold them in bulk. Probably as many lunds back then as people. Most popular were the 16s and 18s with the old two stroke 35 yamahas. The red and blue color options earned them the nickname "spam cans". I think every family west of kodiak had at least one at some point, we certainly did.

Guys the next village up used to through rocks in the bow when rolling solo, always made them ride a bit better. Other option was a fuel drum or the running punch line... a rotund wife. Logged all manner of adventure in one of those, every one of them leaking slowly from a rivet that never seemed to get fixed. Dollar for dollar maybe the best option, but I get the feeling the op is chasing the ultimate tool... that might be something altogether more than the almighty lund ssv.

comfisherman said:

Never hear me disparage the almighty lund... western alaska in the 90s and early 2000s they must have sold them in bulk. Probably as many lunds back then as people. Most popular were the 16s and 18s with the old two stroke 35 yamahas. The red and blue color options earned them the nickname "spam cans". I think every family west of kodiak had at least one at some point, we certainly did.

Guys the next village up used to through rocks in the bow when rolling solo, always made them ride a bit better. Other option was a fuel drum or the running punch line... a rotund wife. Logged all manner of adventure in one of those, every one of them leaking slowly from a rivet that never seemed to get fixed. Dollar for dollar maybe the best option, but I get the feeling the op is chasing the ultimate tool... that might be something altogether more than the almighty lund ssv.

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My dad has an 18‑foot Lund with a 25 hp long‑shaft two‑stroke, possibly an SSV, and it’s been great for fishing trips with up to five people. My only gripe is the layout. I’m not a fan of athwartship seats and I’d much rather have a flush self‑draining sole.

I hear you on the shortcomings of the Lund. They were the silver Honda civic of boats, reliable and economical but uncomfortable to sit in after about 45 minutes.


On your previous post about the hybrid hulls, an acquaintance of mine built a utility skiff a year or so ago with all manner of hybrid cloth and resin. Im not sure what the actual layup was, the rumor mill was someone engineered a much thicker version of essentially a snowboard. There have been several now where they thermo form uhmw in mold so it fit flush with the hull and was layed up in a pocket. Last two seasons the skiff was made for were a bust and it was only used minimally in deep water. Didn't get a chance to see what it does in the shallow bottom contact it was designed for.

Think you could probably engineer just about anything for a price.

When fishing stops I've got a dingy to build, its 3000$ of cloth core and epoxy plus how ever many hundred hours it takes me to make a replacement for an 1800$ hardbottom raft.... fingers crossed it performs better.

Guess its like everything, balancing act between best and budget....

Helped clean out an old net locker that had a mid 90s 2 stroke 30 hp outboard of some sorts. Man it was light, seems like for all these shallow water boats its the chunky engine we hang off the back making it hard to push off the shallows.

Serious punch resistant hulls are Kiwi's minijets . As I remember they used thick alu at the bottom and sometimes replaceable wear panels made of PE. Theres's problem with attachment PE to aluminium welded hull. But it can be solved by many ways .

The mini jets are their own little monster. My childhood friends family got into them probably 15 years ago, dunno how many they have built but its gotta be in upper double digits. His dad was even doing his own custom intake nozzle machining. They've built up and down the size range from single seat little 70 hp units to larger 4 seat variations with 315 hp turbo motors.

The theory on them is more ricochet off and over as opposed to float over. The boats are stout, comparatively heavy with tremendous power. Very effective little units to be sure, but a different design ethos than it sounds like the op is going for.

Scaling the mini jet structure up 18 feet is going to equate to a heavy hull.

comfisherman said:

The mini jets are their own little monster. My childhood friends family got into them probably 15 years ago, dunno how many they have built but its gotta be in upper double digits. His dad was even doing his own custom intake nozzle machining. They've built up and down the size range from single seat little 70 hp units to larger 4 seat variations with 315 hp turbo motors.

The theory on them is more ricochet off and over as opposed to float over. The boats are stout, comparatively heavy with tremendous power. Very effective little units to be sure, but a different design ethos than it sounds like the op is going for.

Scaling the mini jet structure up 18 feet is going to equate to a heavy hull.

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Agreed. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of the hybrid construction. Light aluminum hull and structure and then one piece; deck, liner, cap, console. Simple layout, lightweight foam core, self bailing out the back. Gelcoat is cooler to the touch, easer to clean, looks nicer, easier to make complex shapes, faster to build.

Maybe it could sell as a hybrid construction and a dual function. Tough as any duck boat / jon boat out there. But hose it out and it cleans up nice enough to take the wife to the sandbar on. Quiet enough so that know one will even know you've got a redneck motor.

thanks

Composite does make for more comfort on the human interface side of things. However unless your utilizing an existing deck cap and console, one off fiberglass construction can take some time and labor.

Found a fascination with glass projects doing one offs about 5 years ago. Early this summer we had a one off glass project for my wife's camper in one bay and an aluminum welded project in the next for a friend of mine in the other. It took as much time or more to make the one off mold, let alone fair it up and layup the part as it did to finish the completed alloy part of similar size and complexity. For one off its just easier in aluminum.