Inexpensive hull construction materials

[BrissoDamo]

Today's plutocratic, imperialist, capitalist economy doesn't add the cost together in total or calculate renewablity . It neglects environmental impacts, social impacts, health/ecological impacts and sustainable practice. They want to go to the moon, again.......they have no concept or real purpose, is a hurdy gurdy of madness. Be practical in an impractical system.....

 

[gonzo]

You got it. The mechanism is very similar. However, in polymers it is heat activated instead of a biochemical process.

 

[clmanges]

Paper is cheap, and actually does work. Just be sure to find a glue that is truly waterproof--most so-called waterproof glues really aren't.

No So Short History http://www.cupery.net/SH.html

 

[fpjeepy05]

Has anyone sprayed milled glass fibers with any success? Strength wise where does it fall between neat resin and CSM laminate? Hypothetically, if I wanted to make a part that looked like it used a waffle for a mold, it would be labor prohibitive to make it with CSM and a hard roller. Maybe CSM with a stretchlon bag, but that would depend on the waffle geometry. I'm curious if sprayed milled fiber would work. Or a chopper gun with the length adjusted to a minimum.

 

[ondarvr]

Milled fibers are tough to spray, they form blockages in the equipment.

It's difficult to get enough fibers into the resin to make a huge difference, it will be better than neat resin, but nowhere near a normal glass laminate.

RTM and compression molding are frequently used to make shapes like that.

 

[DogCavalry]

Today's plutocratic, imperialist, capitalist economy doesn't add the cost together in total or calculate renewablity . It neglects environmental impacts, social impacts, health/ecological impacts and sustainable practice. They want to go to the moon, again.......they have no concept or real purpose, is a hurdy gurdy of madness. Be practical in an impractical system.....

And it's still massively better than anything done under communism.

 

[fpjeepy05]

Milled fibers are tough to spray, they form blockages in the equipment.

It's difficult to get enough fibers into the resin to make a huge difference, it will be better than neat resin, but nowhere near a normal glass laminate.

RTM and compression molding are frequently used to make shapes like that.

Just found that. Supports what you are saying. Compression molding comes with its own difficulties/expenses. I can't find a lot of specs for chopper guns but it looks like 1/4" is the minimum fiber length. Might work.

 

[gonzo]

For example, PVC pipe could be split in half and glassed to the hull for stiffening and the amount of CSM and resin could be reduced and since PVC is cheap the overall cost would be reduced

Not really. The PVC is only a form to make the fiberglass reinforcements. Foam or cardboard would work much better; even cheap wood. Trying to lay a half pipe on a curved surface is not impossible but a lot of work. It has to be shaped with heat to the exact shape for it to stay in place.

 

[DogCavalry]

It seems like a lot environmental impact to find a use for melted sand. It's melted sand. Bury it.

 

[fpjeepy05]

It seems like a lot environmental impact to find a use for melted sand. It's melted sand. Bury it.

Yeah, but a lot of energy was used to make it look unlike sand.

 

[DogCavalry]

More energy to make a bin sort clean transport store process make special equipment to make garbage usable. Etc. Generally speaking recycling programs are bad for the environment.

 

[fpjeepy05]

More energy to make a bin sort clean transport store process make special equipment to make garbage usable. Etc. Generally speaking recycling programs are bad for the environment.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[gonzo]

An opinion is whether recycling is ethically necessary. The energy and expense of recycling is a fact.

 

[fpjeepy05]

An opinion is whether recycling is ethically necessary. The energy and expense of recycling is a fact.

'All recycling uses more energy and is expensive' is neither a fact nor an opinion. It is a falsehood. If you think that is true you are still living in 1994.

Aluminum, for example, requires 96 percent less energy to make from recycled cans than it does to process from bauxite. Recycled glass uses about 21 percent less energy. Recycled plastic bottles use 76 percent less energy and newsprint about 45 percent less.

The economic debate is hard because it is impossible to separate out government subsidies and the public willingness to pay more for recycled products for ethical reasons. Even if I were to say it costs more to recycle on average, that doesn't mean it does for every example nor does it mean it will in the future.

 

[ondarvr]

Some recycling is more cost effective than others.

But are you factoring in all of the associated costs to recycle an item, or just the cost of melting and reforming the product in the manufacturing process.

If the cost was actually lower, then there wouldn't be surplus of recyclable products being collected, then sent to land fills.