TP52s

Ooo, ooo, I know that one!

When you roll a sphere, no matter how much or how little, it remains a sphere.
But when you roll a square, it gradually becomes a diamond, then returns to being a square. Same analysis can be applied to other non-spherical shapes.

 

You're so helpful.

 

This is awfully confusing. We have SA calling the TP52 the premier big boat, and Frank calling them a complete ripoff and a farce. Maybe if Frank would cite some facts and figures (as opposed to wild theories and incomprehensible associations) he might earn a little credibility. But perhaps that has been suggested already...

Frank, try starting with this picture. What do we see here that would indicate this is the start of anything other than a premier keel-boat race?

 

Ooo, Ooo, I KNOW!...
None of them have a 125 HP outboard hanging on the transom!

 

On TP 52s and the Sport of Kings

It was the defacto creation of a legal monopoly by the King of England for the East India Trading Company, that sparked Boston Tea Parties on the east coast of the Americas. Corporate influence, campaign finance and cultures of corruption are directly related.Thanks to the crew, sponsors and owners of Pirates for this insight.

Objections to TP52s in the Americas stems from undo influence on design by kings and those who make themselves out to be kings (multi national corporate executives). The fact that a designer recently created a TP52 that met all the rules and still was not allowed to race illustrates.

We in the US suffer by a decline of 1000 sailors a year to the sport. The reason is that this sport is viewed as a sport of kings, and seriously our nation is not about supporting kings. We look to de-elite the sport.

Lets continue because I think we are ready to impart more mighetto-ism.

The sport has duck dodged this issue for two long. I speak as a US patriot now.

You do not have kings with out slaves or their equivalent. In our sport, slaves are created by a system of patronage which exists owing to a culture of fools, also known as a culture of silence, and culture of corruption. In our sport the kings are multi-national corporate executives and the race game is played this way.

Keep your mouth shut - like a proper slave - and one day you will crew on - or design - an America's Cup vessel.

I now speak as fondly as I can of Johnathan McKay. Here is this Bethwaiter, who charms us with his Tasar deeds and advances the sport as it should be, something everyman with inclination can participate in and something where talent rather than connection matters. Johnathan finds himself unable to compete with the money.

He pays to participate in a mini-transat race in hopes of advertising his skill. These Mac26x-like vessels de-elite the sport. But, for reasons I think unnatural for a man of his talent, he does not complete the race.

The apparent reason - a dismasting. The true reason - we can not know - but suddenly Jonathan is in the money. Did he keep his mouth shut about letting some one else win. I will not argue so. But I will state that it looks like a duck.

The great American Hero - Judge Jackson - stated that if it looks like a duck, you assume its a duck and shoot. This is how he started the process of taking down the multi-national corporate executives at Microsoft. It is also how he educated patriots that our form of democracy relies on speaking slanderously about public figures appearing to do wrong. Lesser democracies do not allow citizens to do so. In lesser democracies (England, Poland, Canada, Germany, Spain, other EUs) only lawyers can speak as we in the US are allowed. We who participate in the duck dodge (this Tuesday Murellet has almost her full crew) speak of this kind of thing always and do not keep silent as a mater of patriotism. How does White Cloud hit a charted rock in the Van Isle 360? Who was at the helm? What other crews does he/she crew on? Who pays for the 38,000 in damage? Unless there is talk there is no progress - as a sport or as a nation.

Frank L. Mighetto
representing South Sound Sailing Society
we hoist the flag of terror for TP52 supporters - Yes it is the US ensign.

 

Well those folks at InternetBroadcasting sure are doing a good job of promoting motors. We have been SeaFairing on a 49 footer (sailboat) with an HD-TV flat panel that we couldn't figure out how to turn on. (sat tv) Then we switched over to regular TV and now today ClearWire and streaming video on Web 2.0.

The point to motors is safety but it is also venue. It took us over two hours to get to the hydroplane races by 49 footer yesterday. The vessel would do 9 knots but the captain preferred a cruising speed of half that. Then prior to returning to the central sound base of the kiss-me-arse syndicate we tried to water up the Fixed fin 49 foot boat and touched down. Such is the reality of fixed fin sailboat design today. They just do not dredge channels any more. Lifting fins are the only way to go - even in lakes with 200 feet plus. The AC boats will have 25 foot high aspect ratio lifting fins. (thats a centerboard ye who need yet to see the light)

My boat with her Clearwire WIMAX broadband Web 2.0 could reach the action in 20 miniutes. You can not believe how much larger Lake Washington Looks on a big (and slow) boat given the perspective of running on a Mac26x. You can not believe what the US residents have in the form of wireless broadband Web access - assuming the multi-national corporate executives are not allowed to purchase the US dot commons (700 mhz spectrum). No other nation has such a spectrum devoted to the public. Speed matters, under sail, under motor and on the web.

Tell me this isn't fun. Boating is about that. It is not about supporting owners who would be kings. The AC boats also will expand their use of water ballast (AKA rail meat). These changes in ACC design reduce the resale value of TP52s. Next we eliminate win lee race courses. Hydroplaning is still going strong because the common man can relate and the course is oval shaped not linear. Sailboat racing needs similar course design. That will happen and will further reduce TP52 values. On a positive note. The boats are no longer going to be called TransPac 52s. Scot Tempesta mentioned in Sea Horse? Huzzah to that. Lets reward this move by supporting Sailing Anarchy and TP52s (in a limited manner while speculating about pay for content). Well back to the action. Hottie went hiking.

Frank L. Mighetto
now posting under the influence from shore

Frank L. Mighetto
Ooo Ooo FormulaBoat.com and Oracle By Plane

 

Bill Gates is a ...........duck.?

 

#100

You just can't do it, can you Frank?

 

can someone show me a print of the tp 52?

 

http://www.transpac52.org/home.htm

http://www3.gurit.com/marine/cases_tp52.php

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ss=Public&listing_id=74916&url=&hosturl=farr&

 

On Gates, Ellison, and the return to Swantown

It is incomprehensible to me that this thread again becomes the single most important discussion on design for Americans but there it is in black and white. America's Cup goes to Court. The primary reason - the influence of kings and those who would be like them - TP52 owners. When ever there is chat of sailboat competition there is an undercurrent of politics. Lets get this out because it serves to focus.

Attach yourselves like leaches to this specific issue - America's Cup Competition. We need not mention the underlying issue again (multinational corporate corruption of our sport and our nation), but we do need to introduce ourselves to the new readers - and there will be many as we are recruiting. Bloggers are the Minutemen Patriots of the 21st century. All are welcome here where they may no longer be welcome on Sailing Anarchy (now incorporated - and I suspect multi-national). We turn these bloggers into sailors and boat designers; they are already patriots.

So lets start with Gates (code name duck). Outside of sailing, Gates is a duck owing to his heart of darkness and the Judge Jackson comments. We do not blame the man because so much our society and government has been corrupted by multi-national corporate interests.

These interests focus on taking wealth from the public and distributing it to those who are often not even US citizens. Because the non citizen shareholders do not live or care about the USA they do not care about our laws or about our infrastructure. Hence, they create profit focused men like Gates, who eventually have hearts of darkness and can no longer live in polite society because we will not tolerate them.

Gates and Company was found guilty of US Antitrust Violations just as the Seattle Syndicate was found guilty of design cheating. Since we will not tolerate that, instead they must live out there days on islands such as the Gates Foundation, and fade from public view. The sailing sport can not save Bill Gates and similar men. These who may have done inhuman things now try to live out their days on the race course. Judge Jackson saw a duck. Many others did as well. The shots all hit. Larry now sees many of like kind in our sport. We need to pay attention.

One innovation from the TP52 camp has been called Owner Driver. OD is very close to mob rule. A designer should be able to read the box rules, develop, launch and campaign that vessel, and as long as none of the design rules are broken, race. But the innovative TP52 owners do not subscribe to the law of box rules and have not for a while. Today the owner of a meets-all-the-box-rules vessel can still be prohibited from racing if the mob of currently racing owners wants it.

This month, Larry Ellison alerted the world that the ACC like America herself, is intended to by ruled by law and not by mob. He fights Kings via the America's Cup dead of trust, a contract law, by filing his law suit. The US form of democracy holds little else as sacred as what is on paper. It is the reason there is not mob rule and anarchy.

If Bill Gates or his friends are allowed to participate in our sport; it will be corrupted just as Bill Gates corrupted the Republican Party. Larry Ellison is our man when it comes to sailing. The notion that there are several others (likely from the scandalous and Gates friendly now-defunct-like-Enron-and-WorldCom Seattle Syndicate) willing to take on an ACC if Larry would just leave should anger all. Visit the Golden Gate Yacht Club web site. I regret now even a partially nice comment on TP52s.

You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. We are not enemies but friends. Was I wrong. Was Lincoln? Are not these TP52 owners aggressors. Is not the King of Spain (King TP52) exerting influence on the ACC?

Frank L. Mighetto
Fly the US ensign not the NYYC ensign as it is multi-national and hence part of the problem. I know so sad. Go Larry

 

Well, it will please S.M. Juan Carlos, he have more influence into the ACC than in his own country. And, BTW, He's not the owner of Bribón... You should read some more..

 

Well far be it for me to dispense political advice above my pay grade. The Spanish navy would be better off teaching team building skills on a tall masted square rigger. Thats a technical design perspective. BTW, I learned yesterday that the Adventure's (a square topsail schooner) is no longer allowed by the US coast guard to fly those topsails owing to stability concerns. Lesson for the TP52 advocates - reduced sail provides stability. It is only vessels that are known to be used by fools where the design must be otherwise.

Lets continue today with observations of the repentant TP52 advocate Jim Teeters. I was particularly flabbergasted by his notions on free board. Students of the sailing sport are taught on vessels like TP52s that high free board is a bad thing. Jim Teeter's demonstrates now that free board contributes to more power to the sails. His convincing argument analyzes the wind forced into the sail at various healing angles. At low healing angles turbulence flowing under the boom and over the deck represents less power than when the vessel is heeled and wind hitting the hull is deflected upwards smoothly and into the sail. Thats a Teeterism worthy of lifting this glass of Skullers.

This novice designer has long recognized that a wide hull shape presents different free board at various angles of heel. So your Monitor style hull, favored by racers because the flat deck makes working the vessel more comfortable actually ends up with a higher free board that say - well than say a Mac26x - at the same heeling angle.

In researching free board, I now recognize that low free board is a design plus if the vessel is to be used for war. The Virginia had trouble maneuvering against the Monitor owing to continually running aground. But efforts to lighten the ship so it could maneuver better raised the free board exposing more of its hull and making her a better target for Monitor.

The US Navy will not allow vessels to be built by committee. Safe Boat here in Puget sound had to be the prime contractor responsible completely for the design and manufacture of the vessel. If sailboats were built in the same manner we would have no TP52s. Way to often the design and build are responsibilities of multiple companies each of course blameless for the eventual result.

More later of course. Join in if you are a US citizen. If not, get your lawyer to speak for you or risk family wealth when the King of Spain sues you. Of course you are welcome to read. (note there is no smily; We are serious about taking the Americas Cup and America back from the know-nothings)

Frank L. Mighetto
member US Sailing

 

?

England a lesser democracy?

 

Well, that's called Juan Sebastián de Elcano... again, you should read a little bit more...

Don't worry, S.S.M. Don Juan Carlos de Borbòn, will spend more money in suing me than he might get from suing me. And believe me, right now freedom of speech is something I have granted under many constitutions. Your political view of the world is more wrong (if that could ever be a possibility) than your view of sailboat design. Your senseless diatribe is just good free entertainment.

Let's summarize your points:

Mac 26 is a good design.

To justify that, you have elaborated a web of inexplicable ramifications of nonsense about a premier racing design, conspiracy theories, historical inaccuracies, and general senseless talk.

In a nutshell, go back to your medication. Better not, keep out of it and keep writing. Again, this is good free entertainment, like Seinfeld or Frasier re-runs...