Yet another new guy.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Bob E, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. Bob E
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 11
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    Location: Iowa, USA

    Bob E some day

    I'm getting to be an old telephone worker now, 34 years and nearing retirement. The only boat that I have built was a 13' canvas over frame (with a plywood floor) kayak.

    My father had told me that I could not build it so I fired up the table saw while he was at work. He went down to the shop for something and found the completed frame. "I guess you can build it." was all he said.

    I built it before I got my drivers license, age 15 most likely. I know this because I had to have my older brother drive me to the airport to buy aircraft dope from the local flying service. I spent about 70 dollars on the build and the 50 that I spent on that paint was, at the time, the most money that I had ever spent at once in my life. Baling hay was how I got that money.

    On a later family vacation, after being assured by a Teton National Park ranger that the "kayak" was certainly adequate for the Snake River, my older brother and I climbed into the elongated open cockpit and set off in the 12 mile per hour current. Four hours and forty miles later we rounded a bend and saw our worried parents and younger brother at the landing. My first words to them were- " Were you trying to get rid of us? "

    It is now over forty years later. I enjoy doing a variety of things outdoors. I do some canoeing, deer and duck hunting, fishing, drawing, carpentry and even more dreaming. Our three kids are grown, still costing though, the youngest a Marine recently back from an uneventful tour in Fallujah. He did see snow, ice and frost while he was there, things that the locals had never seen before. It must be global warming.

    I have been working on and rejecting designs for a one man marsh boat, 12' in length and 4' abeam. The boat will have through holes for staking in the decks at both ends as well as grassing rails, oar locks, and a floor rack to keep me out of the mud and water while lying down as well as flotation foam, structural members, bottom rub rails and all the rest.

    The boat will be used in very shallow water, and be poled, paddled, rowed or towed. I've even given some thought to a very low powered mud motor. People are making them out of weed whackers.

    I'm pretty well set on my top side form but I am still working out the hull shape. In my image I am leaning towards the hull on the far left. Even though my program is not meant for boats, I can develop patterns for that one and the one next to it and construct using stitch and glue. The other two would require strip planking around the bilges. Are there any thoughts as the the relative characteristics of the hard chine verses rounded? Again, I'm leaning towards the simplest, on the far left. It only takes me about two minutes to change the rocker, flare or roundness of the hull so nothing is set at all. I like the overall size as it will handle two people with little gear or one person with a dog, gun, lunch, decoys, and all of the other stuff that I must have with me. While hunting I will be using a low chair or lying down depending on the vegetation around me.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Bob
     

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  2. Dane Allen
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 13
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    Location: So Cal

    Dane Allen Junior Member

    In my opinion, limited in experience as it is, you should look into the dory designs. I know they were designed for sea fishing, life boats and river boats but your stated wants and the picture attached just called out dory to me.

    Talk about ease of construction, inches of draft, stability when occupants standing, load capacity and durability. The Chaimberlain/Gunning Dory is a favorite style of mine with the two chines but I am sure a Banks Dory would serve you well. Google Butler's Gunning Dory for the one I have.

    Fishing schooners would stack these dorys on deck,like drinking glasses, 5-6 high and then load them with two fishermen apiece into the sea.

    Rounded chine, in my opinion, adds labor and cost with no performance benefit. You pay for pretty. Also, it may be easier to broach, I don't know for sure.
     
  3. Asleep Helmsman
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Republic of Texas

    Asleep Helmsman Senior Member

    I’m not so sure about that, dory idea. It seems like a totally flat boat would be the easiest to construct, have the highest initial stability, and draw the least water.

    You won’t be able to paddle it as fast because it touches a lot of water, but at very low speeds you probably won’t notice anyway.

    The hull on the left might get a little more turbulence at the bow (and actually all the way around) than the one on the far right, but once again at these speeds you probably won’t notice, and because of the effect of the turbulence around the harder chines, the boat will be more stable.

    So soft chines, a little less strenuous to paddle; hard chines, more stability, carries more weight, and draws less. Actually holds more weight and draws less are kind of the same thing.

    Good Luck and happy hunting.

    Joe
     
  4. diwebb
    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 122
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    Location: New Zealand

    diwebb Senior Member

    Hi Joe,
    what you have sketched looks somewhat like the east coat of england gunning punts, I think you can find an illustration in Marsh's book "Inshore craft in days of sail and oar". Also you may want to look at the Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes, I think Chapelle showed one of these in one of his books. The english gunning punt is hard chined and double ended as your left hand sketch and the Sneakbox is round bilged with a transon stern. Both are shallow draft and intended for duck hunting so should meet most of your requirements. The gunning punts had a 2 inch barrel, hand made blunderbuss (almost a cannon) fixed along the centerline of the foredeck and were paddled up in close proximity to a gathering of feeding ducks by a prone paddler using one handed paddles over the gunwales each side; he then shot the cannon which was loaded with all sorts of scrap nails etc and fired by black powder, and could kill thirty or fourty ducks with the one shot!
    Best of luck with the project.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yep, you need a "duck boat" or the "Barnegat Sneakbox", both of which are gunning boats. John Gardner's book "Building Classic Small Craft" has plans for one in it.
     
  6. Dane Allen
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: So Cal

    Dane Allen Junior Member

    I have John Gardner's "The Dory Book" which I find fascinating. I'll be picking up his "Building Classic Small Craft" in a few weeks.

    I recommended the dory style because of your interest in poling the craft along, among other propulsion. A dory is very stable to stand up in.
     
  7. Asleep Helmsman
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 212
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    Location: Republic of Texas

    Asleep Helmsman Senior Member

    Hey Dane,

    Sorry it sounded like I was criticizing the Dory design or your post, it seamed to me Bob was looking for shallow draft, as the most important element. Obviously nothing can have a shallower draft per displacement as a flat hull.
     
  8. Dane Allen
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: So Cal

    Dane Allen Junior Member

    Ha, no problem. I was thinking of a dory as a flat bottom boat but, in fact, there is a slight curvature bow to stern. The Gun Dory I'm working on has an almost imperceptable curve down the whole length. Also, the "they say" verbiage says this boat can move in just a few inches of water. I'll let you know if this is true.
     
  9. Bob E
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Iowa, USA

    Bob E some day

    I'd like to see some pics of your gun dory.

    The reason that I was going for a flat bottom is, as stated, to help it to float in skinny water. The design (such as it is) has flared sides to help with stability while poling, the skids will help with this too. The skids add some draw depth but I think the value in protecting the hull at the launch and on sand and mud bars makes them worthwhile.

    I agree that it is a lot like a dory (or a decked pirouge) without rocker.

    Thanks for the comments. I've been a lurker around here for a while. I'll post it up when I get it fleshed out better.


    Bob
     

  10. Dane Allen
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: So Cal

    Dane Allen Junior Member

    Better yet, here is a link to the designer and several variations on the Chaimberlain(sp?)/Gun Dory:

    http://www.butlerprojects.com/boats/gundory/index.htm

    The Gun Dory is "almost" flat with a few inches of upswing at the bow and stern. Back in the day, these things were usually beached on rocky New England shores due to limited slip space. And, with technology as it is today, you can mix graphite in with the FINAL coat of epoxy on the underside giving you a surface that helps to slide over obstructions so you can skip the skids. Finally, the Gun Dory just looks so damn cool!!!
     
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