Yamaha T9.9 and Honda BFP9.9 looking for opinions

[missinginaction]

Hi Folks,

I'm in the process of adding a small auxiliary outboard to my 25 1/2 foot Silverton. This boat's main engine is a 302 ford coupled to a Walters V-drive via a Borg Warner Velvet drive. I'd estimate she displaces about 8,000 pounds, maybe a bit less. She does have a fair amount of sail area for her length. I'll post a couple of photos below.

This boat is used primarily on the Hudson and Mohawk rivers in New York but she will see limited time on Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain and in the New York/Long Island area. That's the plan anyway.

I decided that a high thrust outboard would be a good idea to compliment the inboard as an emergency back-up, as a trolling motor and for some use at low speeds when I'm not in a hurry.

1. I'd like to mount the engine on a bracket at the boats center line. It would seem to me the in forward gear the boats rudder would be sufficient and I could lock the outboard in a straight forward position. Would there be any issues with this approach?

2. Based on the manufacturers information the Yamaha provides 6 amps of charging current and the Honda 12 amps. There is conflicting information regarding the Yamaha and some state that it produces 10 amps. Does anyone have a definite answer on this? (I own a Yamaha motorcycle and while I've found Yamaha bikes to be just about bulletproof I have noticed little glitches in the manuals and documentation). It would be helpful to have as much charging current as possible.

3. I'd like to rig a remote control for the throttle and starting circuits so I don't have to climb over the transom when I'm alone on the boat. I don't see the need for a cable remote and notice that some outfits sell electronic remote throttle controls that use servos to control the throttle.
These units retail for $300.00 or so. Over the years I've spent time building and flying radio controlled aircraft. I see that various vendors now sell servo controllers for robots. Has anyone rigged up a servo controller and a CAT 6 cable to a receiving board that runs a throttle control servo on one of these little engines? It looks like I can do this for about $150.00 and a little fabrication of a servo holder and a cam lever for the throttle. Any comments?

I realize this is a long post, I try to wait and save up a number of questions to ask at once. I've gained a lot of experience with inboards and stern drives over the years but haven't so much as touched an outboard in 40 years. So any comments or input would be helpful as I make my decision.

Thanks,

MIA

 

[Mr Efficiency]

I'm not sure the centre-line placement is a good idea, the rudder may cause cavitation problems when you steer. You will certainly need a 25" leg if you go that way, too. Ideally, choose the engine with the greater prop diameter and gear reduction. Better too if the engine has the gearshift on the tiller, less reaching down. You can rig the throttle to be tight and stay open with a little ingenuity. That way you just steer from the normal helm at a constant throttle setting. Using auxiliary motors hands-on at the stern is a pain if it is a rough day.

 

[rasorinc]

Tohatsu makes all the small and medium size engines for Merc and Yamaha. Their 9.8 model lists 6 A OUTPUT.

 

[ondarvr]

Tohatsu does not make the Yamaha.

If all you're doing is using it for backup it won't make that much of a difference, they both work very well, there are far more Yamahas sold though.

If used for trolling the Yamaha works better, other than that find the best price and dealer you want to work with.

You may be able to find more aftermarket remote elctronic throttle control options for the Yamaha. You can buy full function autopilots that can be controled from anywhere in the boat (wired remote), or models that just control the throttle.

The Honda's can be tougher to control the RPM's right off idle, so it can make trolling more difficult, people add electronic throttle controls to make it easier to dial in the correct speed.

Both motors can last a very long time and are reliable.

 

[whitepointer23]

Tohatsu does not make the Yamaha.

If all you're doing is using it for backup it won't make that much of a difference, they both work very well, there are far more Yamahas sold though.

If used for trolling the Yamaha works better, other than that find the best price and dealer you want to work with.

You may be able to find more aftermarket remote elctronic throttle control options for the Yamaha. You can buy full function autopilots that can be controled from anywhere in the boat (wired remote), or models that just control the throttle.

The Honda's can be tougher to control the RPM's right off idle, so it can make trolling more difficult, people add electronic throttle controls to make it easier to dial in the correct speed.

Both motors can last a very long time and are reliable.

Who adds electronic throttles to 9.9 hondas. I have not come across that before.

 

[Steve W]

The Yamaha is the only outboard on the market that is specifically built to push heavy boats at displacement speeds against just about anything. Its the only motor with a really low 2.92:1 reduction to allow it to swing a big prop, the Honda and others consider 2.33 to be low gearing. I motored 1500 miles from connecticut to Minnesota a couple of years ago with a 1989 Yamaha 9.9 high thrust as the only propulsion on a Gemini 30ft catamaran, it proved to be 100% reliable and provided enough charging for us to run a small stirling cooler in freezer mode so we had ice cream for the whole trip. I thought that the older ones had a 13 amp charge circuit but I could be wrong on that. Phenomanal engines. I have no experience with the Honda but the specs are not as good for pushing a heavy boat imho

Steve.

 

[Steve W]

Do you have a link to the electronic controls for $300? I've only seen expensive ones.

Steve.

 

[ondarvr]

Who adds electronic throttles to 9.9 hondas. I have not come across that before.

People that want to troll slowly for certain species, some Mercs kickers have the same issue. It's a frequently discussed issue in this region.


Missinginaction

Here's a link to a commonly used product.

http://www.trollmasters.com

 

[Mr Efficiency]

A 25' planing hull won't need to worry about not trolling slow enough with a 9.9 hp O/B.

 

[ondarvr]

We were discussing the differences between the two brands, it's a difference, and in some applictions is a headache to deal with. And as I said in my first post, unless you're trolling it's not an issue.

 

[missinginaction]

Thanks for the replies gentleman and happy new year to you!

I was just about sold on the Yamaha until I discovered the Honda's charging output. This little cruiser has a pretty robust electrical system and a 13 amp charge would certainly be helpful. The other issue is that I love Yamaha products. As I said I own a Yamaha bike and over the past 8 years have had not one issue with it. Not one. I'm sold on Yamaha reliability. Now Honda is no slouch in the reliability department either. They offer a 5 year warranty (2 years longer than Yamaha).

Regarding a throttle control........

The Trollmaster Pro 2 retails for $300.00. As I said, I've messed around with RC aircraft (not drones, real airplanes) for years. Now with the robotics taking off I've found item's like those listed below cheap and right off the shelf. For instance a quick search gets me this:

https://www.servocity.com/html/servo_driver_w__enclosure__605.html

Which I could connect to this:

https://www.servocity.com/html/cat6_servo_extension.html

using this:

https://www.servocity.com/html/cat6_cable.html

finally operating this, which is exactly the servo Trollmaster uses:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitec-33322S-HS-322HD-Standard-Karbonite/dp/B0006O3XEA


All I'd need to do is make up a proper tray for the servo and an arm that would attach to the throttle. Linkage is easy, off the shelf parts that any robotics or RC hobbyist probably has laying around.

The cost: About $115.00.

 

[Steve W]

Thanks for the info on the trollmaster, i will certainly look into it.I would love to have fly by wire throttle and gear shift controls for a project I have in mind. The Honda will probably be fine since its just an auxilliary but I can't see it having anything like the thrust of the Yamaha if the main engine were down and you actually need to push against a head wind and sea like we did on Georgian bay on our delivery.25 knots on the nose and seas big enough for the only other boat stupid enough to out that day, a Grand Banks 36 trawler running downwind, to dissapear in the troughs. That little Yamaha was relentless, when a bog one would roll through we would almost stop but that thing never missed a beat. I can't imagine any other motor that size without the huge reduction being able to swing a big enough prop to perform like that. Another thought would be to get a little Honda generator for additional charging with the added benefit of having 110ac when you may want it. We carried a eu1000 on the trip but we only used it twice in the Trent Severn waterway when we had locks close together an then had to shut the engine down in the locks, just not enough running time to keep up to the fridge. This was only 2 days out of 31 though.
I wish someone would make a larger, maybe 20hp 2 cyl or 25hp 3 cyl workboat motor with a 3:1 reduction, a prop to suit, a Kort nozzle and big charging circuit. As far as I know the 9.9 Yamaha is the only true high thrust motor in existence.

Steve.

 

[missinginaction]

You're certainly right about the gearing Steve. Yamaha makes a 25 HP "high thrust" with a 2.42 gear, not the 2.92 that's in the T9.9.

I may have to just compromise on the charging. Last summer I upgraded my main engine to a 110 AMP high output/low RPM alternator from ARCO marine. It works well and keeps the AC going even at 1200 RPM on the main, just putting along. When I'm on a trip perhaps I could just run on the main engine for a couple of hours if I'm anchoring for the night just to keep the batteries up. With a 3 stage 12 volt regulator I should be able to get my house bank pretty well charged. We do have plenty of AC on the boat thanks to an 1800 watt inverter.

I'll give it some more thought and see if anyone else has an opinion here. Thanks for the reply and I hope you have a nice 2016.

MIA

 

[ondarvr]

Around here the Yamaha's out sell all other brands combined by about 10 to 1, and that's not an exaggeration. If people have a swim-step, or offshore bracket and mount the kicker on it, they frequenlty use the Trollmaster, or go even further and use a TR1 auto pilot, but it's around $3,000 for everything.

The T9.9 works well on boats up to around 26', but it depends on the exact type of boat.


There are videos of it in action on youtube

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-water/autopilots/tr-1-gold-marine-autopilot/prod11573.html

 

[missinginaction]

This is a followup to my original post. I ended up with a Yamaha T9.9 tiller engine. I needed to build a proper swim platform to mount the outboard and also as a means to get back into the boat more easily should I fall overboard. Hey, you never know and I often boat alone.
The boat is back in the water, and I had the chance yesterday to take a 25 mile ride and learn how to run the little Yamaha and see how it would work. The weather was dead calm in the morning and it became slightly breezy in the afternoon, winds I'd estimate at 5-10 MPH, occasionally up to 15.
I'll post a few photos below and you can see my boat in the original post. She's 25.5 feet LOA overall with a a 10.5' beam and a pretty large flybridge for her size so there is a bit of sail area up there.
For now I just locked the Yamaha in a straight forward position and steered with the rudder. Throttle control will be added in the future, probably a Trollmaster.
Here are my performance and economy observations.

1. In dead clam conditions this motor pushed my boat along at 5 MPH. A headwind slowed me to maybe 4.6 or 4.7, a tailwind helped a little but at no time did I go faster than 5.2MPH. Speed was measured via the GPS function on a Standard Horizon radio. I'm assuming it's accurate.
2. Cross winds were a bit of a problem. You needed to stay on top of your steering. If the breeze was from the starboard side, better not let the bow drift to far downwind. On three occasions I needed to fire my main engine as the crosswind was too powerful for the little Yamaha. To give you an idea of the wind force, even at idle, my main engine had no difficulty bringing us quickly back on course, just a minute or two was all it took. I believe that some arrangement to move the outboard in conjunction with the rudder would have solved my windage problems.
3. Fuel economy was amazing. I only ran my main engine for the three course corrections I mentioned and a couple of times going through a lock. I traveled a distance of 24.5 miles on a little less than three gallons of fuel. So about 8 miles per gallon (statute not nautical) really surprised. I kept expecting the little engine to sputter and die towards the end of my trip. Never happened, my three gallon tank was enough.

Conclusions: I'm very happy with the Yamaha T9.9. I'll be taking a trip on the Erie Canal System later this summer. I won't use the Yamaha in narrow channels, tight quarters or passing through locks. I'm not in a hurry though and I can picture calm mornings where this little motor will economically push me along at a leisurely pace while I have a coffee and enjoy the scenery.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with some advice.

Cheers,

MIA