wiggle drive propulsion application

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by SudorracMechEng, May 7, 2012.

  1. SudorracMechEng
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    SudorracMechEng Junior Member

    Hi, i was looking at using the wiggle drive for a surfboard application - whereby two fins could be oscillating and a system will be in place to lock the fins in initial position once desired speed is achieved.

    I am a final year mechanical engineering student, I am wondering which principle is used for the following: (ill try my best to explain)

    The two fins will be Vertically mounted, they will flap from left to right and the pitch will be around +- 15 degrees.

    It will be running off the same idea as this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtD09MTUsnE

    I am looking for some theory behind this?
     
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  2. johneck
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    johneck Senior Member

    The flapping, or wiggling fin is just a wing moving thru the fluid. The fin must be flapped and also rotated in order to provide an appropriate angle of attack to produce lift in the right direction. If you look closely at the video you can see the twisting motion. The Hobie Mirage drive works the same way, but in that case the wing is flexible which provides a similar effect. These type drives can be quite efficient but require fairly large fins to produce the thrust required. They may wind up being larger than you would want for a surfboard, but it certainly is an interesting idea.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =================
    Thanks for the video-excellent and innovative. Seems similar to Hobies flipper drive but different. Very interesting.
     
  4. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

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  5. Doug Lord
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  6. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    swashdrive Junior Member

    Hi All
    Ive just signed up here to defend myself

    KJELL
    the first youtube link at the start of theis thread is not your Invention at all, neither is it some crude wiggle drive !
    This is a swashdrive invention, it uses swashplates to manipulate fins to swim or propulsion. This is something i have developed from my own findings and have been doing this for some many years now.
    This is absolutely not a KJELL Invention, nor is it anything to do with a wiggle something, it is a lot more complex than that !:)
    Regards
    Swashdrive
     
  7. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

    Swashdrive
    Why do you don’t show your development with demonstration of the date you invented it.
    Regards Kjell
     
  8. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    swashdrive Junior Member

    Are you trying to establish priority date here or something else ?
    If that be the case, i have prior art dating back to 1993 on this type propulsion, yes its taken me 20 yrs !
    The earliest date i can find on all ur posts at several forums is 2009 were you are using Swashplates or what you call a "wiggledrive", prior to that you were using a scotch-yoke to manipulate your fin !
    I have been using swashplates in products near 20 yrs now, so this youtube link of my devise at the start of this thread has come off the back of 20yrs Experiance with swashplates not something copied from what you're doing !


    THis is a very tricky devise to get right, theres probably 100 different ways to configure it and only about 2 will work with an efficiency gain, the other 98 you will be better off using a prop. But get it right and it'll beat any prop or jet hands down.

    As can clearly be seen on my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtD09MTUsnE
    the boat is planing with ease, it can have trouble getting on the plane ! but once planing the faster it goes the more grip the fins have the better the efficiency !
    It is doing all this on a 400watt motor .

    SudorracMechEng the principle of how it works is exactly how a penguin swims, but instead of the fins being opposite in the horizontal, they are opposite each other in the vertical and are timed exactly opposite each other cancelling the others lateral forces creating forward thrust with no oscillating feedback forces on the main body (hull).

    Regards
    Craig Wyeth
    Swashdrive™
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  9. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

    Hi Craig.
    Many thanks for your information of your Swashdrive. Your videos are showing how efficient your drive is working.
    The Wiggle-Drive was invented 1972, to produce a symetrical fanning movement for marine propulsion. The Scotch-yoke drive is converting the circular movement to a linear symetrical movement. The Wiggle-Drive is converting the circular movement to a symetrical angular movement, using only 3 moving parts. I think many people ar interesded to know the mechnical way you are moving the fins. Why are you using 2 fins? One is suffisient if you are using symetrical fanning movement.
    Best regards
    Kjell Dahlberg.
     

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  10. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    SudorocMechEng,

    The drive works kind of like a quarter or half revolution of a regular propeller, and it than changed direction. this means the angle of attack of the blade has to also change direction either by rotating, or flexing like the Hobie Mirage drive system.

    I think it would work on a surf board, but it would not be terribly efficient, but certainly better than paddling by hand! You need to find a way to do make it very lightweight, possibly adapting a Hobie peddle drive to the rear of a surfboard might be a fun experiment.

    Here is a clip of the Hobie drive:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6OQhCeXqs&feature=related
     
  11. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

    Hi Sudoroc.
    This is a simple design of a Wiggle Scull Drive operated with your leg power.
     

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  12. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    swashdrive Junior Member

    Hi Kjell

    I somehow knew you would respond with a prior date to anything i had...you're twice my age and prob a great grandfather by now LOL
    It doesn't really matter anyway, seems you have let the cat out of the bag already without realising it !
    Really if you want to achieve speeds like i'm doing at present you should walk away from this water propulsion scotch-yoke thing and look at your "wiggledrive" swashplate Orni devise ! Essentually that is was i have, just needs some reconfiguring and a decent set of fins and you'd be doing it !

    The reason why i've used 2 fins was mentioned earlier
    The way the hobby fins are Confinged, works fine for straight line, but because 1 fine is behind the other there is a force feedback situation and so therefor needs to be mounted rigid and cannot be used for steering without using some ball-screw type rudder arm....been there done that one already !
    What i really like in that video is the lack of any propellor screw noise !

    Regards
    Craig Wyeth
    Swashdrive™
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  13. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

    Hi Craig.
    Yes I am an old man with over 40 years of experimenting with occilating propulsion in air and water. The reson I invented the Wiggle Drive was that I needed a sumetrical angular movement, to produce better thrust than other mechanical deviser was doin. The Wiggle Drive is not patented; everyboddy is invited to use this angular movement. The simplity of the W-D using only 3 moving parts makes the production less costy. It will now be used in the Robot arms movement. I am open to give all help to make the production easyer.
    Regards
    Kjell
     
  14. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

    Hi Sudorrac.
    The Wiggle Drive works well up to 60º. For Tail and Wing propulsion the best is 42º to 46º, depending on the fanning frequency. The Z pin angle has to be half of the total fan angle. All parts in the W-D have been made by me.
    My email is kjellgood@gmail.com .
    Kjell
     

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  15. kjell
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    kjell Senior Member

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