Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sharpii2, May 7, 2020.


Do you believe Sven's latest Ex Lex will make it to New Zeeland.

  1. Nope.

  2. Probably.

  3. Almost certainly.

  1. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,986
    Likes: 151, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I really don't understand your question. Are you asking what Sven's is, or are you asking what mine are?

    I'll give what mine would be for this type of boat:

    1.) It has to be able to recover from a 180 degree capsize on its own with the rig intact.

    2.) It has to be light enough to be propelled by human muscle at about 2 kts in calm conditions without exhausting effort.

    3.) lt has to be able to dry out on its own bottom without a cradle of any kind.

    4.) it has to allow a single person to raise and lower the mast in calm conditions without outside help.

    5.) It has to be able to carry provisions for at least 60 days at sea for 1 person.

    6.) It has to be able to reliably sail up wind with tacks of no greater than 120 degrees in a fresh wind.

    7.) It has to have good course keeping ability without an auto-pilot or a wind vane (which it will probably have anyway).

    8.) It's sailing draft has to be 3 ft or less.

    9.) It has to have a sailing rig which is easy to reef in rough conditions, preferably without having to venture out on deck.

    This is the SOR I can think of off the bat. It is done with no ranking hiarchy.

    Sven would add that there should be no keel. He feels such is a capsize Hazzard.

    I won't go that far myself. But I would certainly avoid any that require a trunk of any kind, or that have all the boat's ballast at the bottom edge, unless it is considerably longer than it is deep.

    I find myself sketching boats that are a boat 20 ft long and have a beam of about 5 ft.

    To avoid the hassle of an engine system of some kind, my thinking has moved to an loaded displacement of around one metric ton.

    The sailing rig, in my thinking, has evolved to some kind of yawl, to keep the masts out of the cabin. I prefer to avoid jibs except for down wind sailing (used to create Lee helm when I need it).

    I have concocted a mainsail which has just two reef points but reefs like a Chinese lug. I have recently built a smaller version to power a a day-sailor I'm building. It will have only one reef, but I hope it will demonstrate the soundness or lack of such, on a smaller scale.

    The mizzen sail has become a sprit-boom one with two sail cloths, one above the boom and one below it. This is to prevent chaff (the sail is cut absolutely flat anyway). It is set and struck with a system of brails and an out-haul.

    I have come up with two hull designs. Both are pointed at both ends and have stern posts as high as their bow posts. It may be more convenient to anchor from the stern than from the bow.

    One has a "V" bottom, vertical sides, and twin long keels*. The other has a flat bottom, flared sides, and a single long keel*.

    *By "long", I mean long in proportion to their depth, not long in proportion to the hull.
    A II and bajansailor like this.
  2. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,098
    Likes: 164, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Corporate stupidity at its finest.

    Not going to talk about fixing global issues any more.

    Sven only.

    Sorry for me taking this off course.
  3. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
    Posts: 733
    Likes: 171, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 743
    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    I think possibly A II may be questioning the phrase 'Sum of Requirements' as opposed to 'Statement of Requirements.'
    A II likes this.
  4. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 176
    Likes: 65, Points: 28
    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    Yes, in the above post #63 Tiny clarified my actual post #49 question, thanks, that's what I've meant to ask.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  5. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    Ok, must admit to poor comms, I chose brevity over completeness, so I elaborate:

    Many people who consider themselves to be innovators or inventors, or would like to be seen as one, lack the humility to check whether the things they come up with actually are new and unheard of. In addition to this, there is the second point I presented as a requirement for something to be considered an innovation (note, this definition of innovation is not my own) , which can be extended to the definition of innovator: the aspect of usefulness. So to be considered an innovator by the definition I've adopted, they must come up with things that are both new, and useful.

    In the context of this thread: Sven has hardly produced very useful boats lately.

    The rule of thumb exists to act as a reminder for the innovators and inventors, actual and aspiring, to check, double check and recheck their work. Is what I came up with new, and more importantly, is it useful? Failure to do this leads to dead ends, wasted hours, and should be considered blasphemous by true innovators.

    By no means was I trying to belittle or downplay the true innovators and inventors. We have too few of them, and too many wannabes.
  6. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 176
    Likes: 65, Points: 28
    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    Thank you Sharpii2 so much for your comprehensive and thoughtful post (as always), all good points as far as I can tell, and I'm happy to see it summed up here like that.

    But my post #49 question, as rightly clarified by Tiny in post #63, concerned if there is a difference in the phrase ‘‘Sum of Requirements’’ as opposed to ‘‘Statement of Requirements’’, or do they mean the same in this context, and is ‘‘Sum’’ here to be read as ‘‘Sum up’’ ?
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  7. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 176
    Likes: 65, Points: 28
    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    In the sentence ‘‘If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that’’ the word ‘‘that’’ in the phrase was referring to the construction of ‘‘roads and bridges’’ in the previous sentence.‘You Didn’t Build That,’ Uncut and Unedited
  8. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 176
    Likes: 65, Points: 28
    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    Thanks Keith, it explains why I can't get the precise technical information I'm asking for when I visit a trade show.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  9. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    Oh, that's not very nicely put, alas, I agree...

    I think it was one of the great racecar builders/designers who once said something like "a racecar needs to be beautiful to win". Now, not to fall into the same pit of misunderstandings again, I'll explain:

    Human eyes, or brains, rather, have evolved to evaluate our surroundings aesthetically. We often consider this as just a freak coincidence, but I happen think that what we consider beauty in nature, our fellow humans, machines and things of all kind, is actually some sort of evolutionarily distilled ability to detect whether something is "built right".

    Does it have reasonable proportions? Does it look streamlined? Is it symmetrical? Does it have all the parts it probably needs to function? Are the parts properly arranged and aligned?

    When we look at something, those are some of the questions that run through our minds, even though we may not aknowledge it. The answers to those questions map out as our evaluation whether the object is worth pursuing. Should I acquire that? Should I make something like that? Should I catch that. And, of course, should I try to charm her/him.

    So, I'm a firm believer of "if it don't look right, it won't work right." Simply because, well, look at where our interest in beauty has got us humans? We the number one animal on this planet! Well, of course it's not just that, but hopefully you all get what I mean.

    To a certain extent, beauty is a relative concept, but still there is something to it...
  10. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 176
    Likes: 65, Points: 28
    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

  11. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 376
    Likes: 146, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    I grew up with boats like Blitzen as the ideal in beauty and performance.

    Flat shear, reverse shear? NEVER!
    Plastic, composite, no wood what-so-ever? BLASPHEMY!
    Fat, flat bottomed, catamaran, foils? MADNESS!

    Ugly ugly ugly ugly!

    Then, you learn what they can do and they start invading your view and your friends and heroes start talking about them and...
    Suddenly, they have a certain beauty you never noticed before.

    Form and function merge in the mind. That which performs well teaches the mind what beauty is.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
    A II likes this.
  12. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
    Posts: 305
    Likes: 56, Points: 28
    Location: Michigan

    KeithO Senior Member

    A small boat in the open ocean is going to be a miserable boat. If one is trying to set a world record of some sort then you have conciously made the decision to ignore the discomfort and press on to the goal. This seems to describe some of his early work. Now as an old man he is still building small boats, so small that his supplies have to go in the bilge and he has no rails whatsoever and little pads of non skid here and there to give him traction on a sharply cambered deck. If I had to be on his boat a couple of days I would be in the water and it would be over.
    He seems to understand the basics of good design, but fails to plan his mission then include what is needed when he builds it because of puritanical views of consumption. All the while getting free materials for his flawed concepts from well known manufacturers.

    If one would look instead at those with truly great accomplishments like Skip Novak and his expedition yachts to Antarctica, you see something that is rather the opposite of the production yacht. Utilitarian in the way it is finished with not a piece of fine timber or joinery in sight. Instead hulls made of aluminum or steel (recyclable unlike Svens composite). Reliable and dry heating, a huge emphasis on safety of the crew, from the design of the cockpit to the extended hard dodger.

    Well worth watching if you have not seen it before.
    JPE, A II and bajansailor like this.
  13. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 176
    Likes: 65, Points: 28
    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    Skip Novak - Yachting World, January 2015, page 24PDF
  14. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 70
    Likes: 18, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 85
    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    I suppose he built his most recent successful design in 1985, Amfibie-Bris.

    After that, mostly weird contraptions which failed his expectations.

    Regardless, he is happy building these boats, exploring ideas, and then going on fairly long journeys with them every 3-5 years or so.

    Without a doubt, he is a very skilled and very experienced blue-water sailor. Few, regardless of age and fitness, would endure the conditions he puts himself through on these primitive and very cramped boats.

    But since this is a boat design forum, all the criticism related to that is understandable.

    Meanwhile, his journey south continues.. Maybe he'll be in the the Azores (or Madeira) in 2-3 weeks?
    A II and JPE like this.

  15. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    Absolutely! Beauty is fluid. A rigid mind fails to update beauty...
    Will Gilmore likes this.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.