what type of yacht to choose

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by kadik, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. kadik

    kadik Guest

    hi

    what yacht to choose for long ocean trip, with single hull, catamaran or trimaran.
    what type is the safest for storm and other hazard situations
     
  2. mistral
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    mistral Senior Member

    give us an helping hand to give you an help :))
    -how many people of crew???
    -race, cruise, fast cruise, scientific research, pure pleasure or what else ????
    -which is the experience of the crew ?
    - what is their level of experience in sailing multihull ??
    - give a percentage of importance to the speed of the boat from 0% to 100%

    ok, if you answer to these questions maybe someone on this forum will be able to give you an answer :))

    fair wind
    Mistral
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    All hull forms (shapes) configuration (mono, cat, tri) and propulsion (sails, oars, power, etc.) have there good points and bad, some more then others, but none is a hands down winner in all categories.

    Mono hull sail is the traditional form, but there are many different types of mono hulled yachts available. The typical passage maker is less performance oriented then the near shore sisters. This is because the passage maker needs to carry considerable supplies for just a few weeks away from land. This requires the yacht have extra displacement and carry it well, in that she doesn't become a different animal when the loading changes as stores are used up.

    Mono power is the common selection for power cruisers and as in the sailing yacht will be a heftier version of yacht then a coastal or river cruiser. The amount of fuel needed to cross an ocean is staggering, and this is reflected in the design of passage making power craft.

    The safest craft in heavy weather is a deep draft mono, built like a tank. Most folks don't see the storms some of us have, 95% of skippers will never learn the joys of surfing down the face of a 30' wave and hoping the bow will rise up after she's punched into the trough and not take all the rails and deck gear with it. That said, anyone intending long ocean passages will encounter storms and the design selected should be well built, not a racer converted to passage making, but a application specific cruiser. Power craft fair far worse in heavy weather then sail. They have much high freeboard and windage, making control in high winds difficult. This is assuming the boat is a sea boat and doesn't have overly large ports (windows) and that those have shudders, good hatches with strong latching systems. Power craft are over driven too easily in heavy weather and this has cost many a boat. Sailing yachts, as a rule, will ride to a confused sea state better, as the hull isn't fighting the weather near as much as power craft.

    Cats and tri's are less stable then mono's after they reach an overly heeled position (this point is design dependant), which doesn't have to be the fault of the helm or crew, but just bad luck. In fact, most off shore multi hulls have a hatch built into their undersides, in the event she does go over. Multi hulls do not have the self righting ability typical monos have, though many attempts to solve this issue have been tried, like masthead floats. This isn't to say many ocean passages haven't been made in multis, many have and safely, but there is something to be considered when a trap door is installed on the side of the boat that doesn't face sunny side up. If sailed wisely, a multi can be quite safe and offers speed rewards that easily out distance monos.

    In the end, it's what you like, what you're most comfortable on. All boaters will argue the merits of the style of craft they enjoy. It's like asking which car is best? Some will have you buying a Volvo for the safety, others the Corvette so you can out run trouble. A Volvo owner would be as out of place in a Corvette as the sports car driver the 5 door wagon.

    If you're in a position to buy a passage maker, get experience on as many different types of yacht as you can. Log as many hours, days and months as you can before you purchase. The more time you have the more likely you'll not have her up for sale shortly after your first cruise, because you bought the wrong boat.
     
  4. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Mono, mono, mono. Steel, steel, steel

    Wynand
     
  5. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Kadik

    For long term comfort for everyone aboard I would choose a Heavy or medium heavy displacment monohull.

    The safest and most comfortable is a sail boat, the roll inertia is considerably greater than a power vessel of the same size. Fuel costs also make sail the most attractive for long range voyaging.

    GRP can be built strong but most modern GRP vessels are foam vessels with GRP skins. Also the GRP resin ironically breaks down in water.

    Trad planked wooden boats are prone to sinking in heavy weather and in collisions. Epoxy strip and 3 ply construction are stronger but still have poor impact resistance.
    Ferro cement can be very strong but again with poor impact resistance.

    Aluminium is a good material, but is expensive, harder to repair and very prone to galvanic corrosion.

    Steel as Wynand N so excitedly points out! is an excellent material for a cruising boat. It is the cheapest strongest fastest and easiest construction material.

    I have seen steel yachts that have suffered major collisions.
    One running onto a reef at 7 knots, I initially doubted the speed when I saw the hull damage (from recollection 70mm long 20mm wide 25mm deep crease in the 6mm thick LE of the keel of a 16 tonne yacht ) but when I saw the engine......... it had ripped the engine off its mounts and sheared all the coupling bolts, 400kg of engine had fallen partly into the bilge with no internal damage to the hull.
    The yacht was sailed many hours to the nearest repair facilities.

    I have many similar experiences and could go on for a while here.
    Often it is very doubful that another form of construction would have avoided sinking while the steel boat has a small dent.

    There is no other material that gives you such good insurance for cruising, such ease of repair or such a projeted lifetime.
     
  6. mistral
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    mistral Senior Member

    just one boat and his owner: Joshua- Bernard Moitessier
    the quintessence of passagemaker
    [​IMG]


    Mistral
     
  7. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Don't get too hung up on historical feats of man and machine.
    The man may be a deity but the yacht can be improved upon. Like Slocum he made the boat famous but even the design of these sorts of boats has progressed.
    Metters are producing a popular single chine version.
     
  8. mistral
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    mistral Senior Member

    come on Mike, don't kill a legend with a few rational words :)
    anyway the basic concept is not so old-fashioned:
    a sturdy heavy displacement steel builded passagemaker, ketch-cutter rigged with a lot of place to store foods, sail and everything you need.
    Of course modern shipyards have improved their boats since Moitessier crossed the oceans.

    fair wind
    Mistral
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Steel is an good choice for coastal cruising as this is the area you'll go bump in the night or run down a log. It's not that cost effective under say 40' and can be relatively design limiting, though rolled sheets and/or radius chines can help. I don't like the material for long massage makers, typically it's the heaviest of the building materials, though easily repaired in the out of the way places we like to cruise where low tech facilities may be all that's available. It's thermal conductive, electrically conductive, corrosive and rigid properties all raise issues that need treatment, like machinery isolation and insulation. Steel construction can be inexpensive to build.

    Most of the above issues are had in aluminum as well, but lighter structures can be generated and the savings carried in fuel or accommodations. High strength to weight ratio of the material is attractive when speed is a prime consideration. You can have a smaller crew, rig and gear in this material because of the lighter weight, but the trade off is sophisticated repair. I wouldn't recommend it for power cruisers and only for sail if the extra cost and care can be justified.

    Ferro cement construction has such a bed rep in the USA that it doesn't need mentioning, though English Windboats produced some very good examples of the type and it has a mush better rep over seas.

    This leaves the various wooden and GRP types of constructions to look at. GRP is the de facto standard, though aluminum is making ground. Wooden, or should I say wooden like construction has been going through a transformation in recent years. Where there was only a handful of methods now there are many. Some are more plastic then wood, others wood core, others yet composites with a wood and 'glass sheath. Now they are building GRP vessels with printed wood grain.

    Frankly I'd select GRP or a clod molded wood craft. I'd prefer the wooden hull, but my understanding of seamanship is different then other folks, so they may well swing for the 'glass.
     
  10. caribmon
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    caribmon Junior Member

    I once owned a smaller version of Joshua - called an "Oreade" at 35 feet built by the same yard (META) as Moitessier's boat. Lovely, but a lot of work and space was tight.
     
  11. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    I always find it very design liberating. The fact that you can weld steel with 100% joint strength, that along with the strength of steel allows design options (and repairs) that would be destructive stress raisers and not possible with other materials.

    Modern paint systems and thoughtfully designed hulls produce no difference in upkeep to other yacht materials, I would say that sensibly designed steel yachts have a lower maintenance requirement to wooden boats and about the same for an ageing GRP vessel.
     
  12. gp333
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    gp333 Junior Member

    few years latter... nobody talk about carbon hulls? ;)
     
  13. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Carbon fiber hulls are still ridiculously expensive for cruising. Absent no holds barred fast passage makers it just isn't even close to justified. Even where it might be reasonable it is usually much for cost effective to buy a racing hull and convert it for cruising.
     
  14. keysdisease
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    Whatever you want:

    http://www.yacht-transport.com/homepage.html

    Steve


    kadik said: hi

    what yacht to choose for long ocean trip, with single hull, catamaran or trimaran. what type is the safest for storm and other hazard situations
     

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  15. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I think the subject was well presented 8 years ago and frankly carbon, is an absurd hull material consideration on a passage maker. Seeing as the original poster came, asked such a generic question and never came back suggests his mom, caught him on the net and took away his laptop (again).
     
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