What to skin canoe with

They may not have done a good job of surface prep and they may not have used epoxy.

so, you may want to remove all of a prior 'skin' if it was done poorly or is poly

otoh, if there is no protection from the uv, most anytbing may have failed

 

Do you know the difference between the way epoxy and polyester smell?

 

Blueknarr makes a good point. Sand enough to generate a little heat and you'll know what you're sanding. Polyester has a distinctive Styrene odor. If unsure get a piece of Styrofoam packing material and put a match to it.

If you're going to glass that canoe be sure to use a slow epoxy hardener so you'll have time to relax and do the wet out properly. I'm partial to 2:1 epoxies like System 3 Resins. Go to the System 3 website and look for The Epoxy Book. It's a free download with a lot of good information.

MIA

 

Yup that is exactly the plan. remove the skin and redo using epoxy. 6oz fiberglass. 1 gallon(shouldn't need it all?) of west marine 105/207. peel the skin. lightly sand/clean surface of the kevlar epoxy haul, put fiberglass on.Wet out with the west Marine.

Heres some pics of the "skin" thats coming off. It's really easy(seemingly) to get between it and the (kevlars?) epoxy underneath with a razor. Theres a bunch of the haul thats like this. and thats a small sample of what comes off. I can get much bigger pieces.pretty much if i run that blade it would go right to the gunwales if i let it.

 

The surface unnderneath was not keyed and that is not likely epoxy. The key must be 60 grit maximum.

No shiny areas are allowed. And no dirt or chemical residues are allowed. A day before bonding the epoxy, but after all sanding is done, I would shop vac, then wash the hull with acetone, but try not to leave acetone runs or streaks.

watch out for blush after you glass; it is a greasy feeling substance and the follow on weave fill coats will not bond to it if it occurs

the weave fill coats should be rolled on; you will use about 6 oz on the boat and a small 4" white foam roller will suck another four ounces or so; you can use a squeegee to get a little epoxy out of the roller at the end...mix 9-12 ounces, but it should go on light enough to not run

a follow on coat or two should hide the weave fully and you can put it on after about 8 hours, maybe faster, but I always worry about the roller failing if the substrate is super sticky, no sanding is needed if you don't make runs, sand with 180 grit after the final epoxy coat cures 24 hours, again no greasy blush

blush is removed with warm dish soap water

varnish is 8 coats minimum, so I'd paint it with an epoxy primer and two part paint and use some fine finish rollers, 1-2 coats of primer and 2 coats of topcoat and that boat will make it 20 years garaged

 

that's what I'm seeing, they tried to bond to a epoxy smooth surface...

Oh so I probably wont need 3L of epoxy? or is that 12oz for the glassing, then follow up coats will be more. Im thinking Ill need the better part of 1.5L anyways. so Ill have to buy 3L. with any luck I just wont open the second jugs.

any recommendations on paint?

 

You will use about 110% of the glass weight for glassing or roughly 18 oz plus 4 oz for a roller, although a squeegee is preferred by some (i use both)

For neat coats, 2 oz per yard is a good measure..

They may have attempted to bond to varnish or a clearcoat. After you sand, consider trying a stripper in a small area and put the stripper under some saran wrap for the test...epoxy will not get a good bond to varnish or a rolled on coating; the bond strength is only as good as the coatings bond or worse...

Epoxy bond strength of say 2000 psi on a varnish bond of far lower or poly bond to a shiny unprepped base has little chance.

I really think Interlux paints win.
2000e for primer
And a liter of 2 part poly

you will need the following epoxy as an amateur

glass@3 yards plus waste of 4 oz 6x3, 22oz
3 coats of neats plus waste each time, 2x3x3 18+3x4 12, 30 worst case

52 oz, half gallon is plenty

 

There is definitely wholesale adhesion failure. Remove in large pieces that are easily swept up and inhaled with great difficulty.

I see an imprint pattern but no fiberglass in the piece you removed. It could be gelcoat, epoxy, varnish or other Clearwater. Each possibility has a distinct smell and taste. The sniff, taste tests are unhealthy but will naturally occur during the removal process. Heat Styrofoam for a comparison for polyester and gelcoat. Old and fresh epoxy smell alike. Varnish smells and tastes like powdered laundry detergent.

In my opinion-
You don't need more fiberglass.
You do need to refill the weave of the remaining glass.
You will then need to provide a UV barrier. Opaque paint is the strongest UV barrier. Varnish or other clearcoats will work but will need annual renewal.

 

you may do without any glass indeed

I do not wish to argue with bk; he is right on wholesale failure of whatever was on there..but you really won't know what to do until you get it all off and do some sanding; if there is any furry stuff; it'll need either glass or epoxy coats and if the old skin is weak; you can save the boat for a couple pounds glass and two weeks work

we also have no idea what the inside looks like

 

Maybe this will help determine what's currently there? the fibers are white though, I burnt that piece with a lighter. smelled like burnt plastic really. I can peel big pieces like this, I haven't done it yet for the obvious reason of figuring out what to replace it with

I'm not entirely positive whats underneath, it seems smooth like epoxy.

I really appreciate your guys help! it will be great to get this old girl back up to like new!

 

I pulled er out to get some more detailed/overall pics. The seat was way to high, I took it out because the 25" wide haul and a seat 3inches from the top was tippy.

Also, the guy I bought it from was just going to fill the "holes" in that "skin" with Bondo epoxy, the parts that he did fill seem to be sticking rather well. I just tried to scrape a bit off and pulled a small bit of the yellow kevlar fibers up. so Im thinking its kevlar epoxied build. and the last layer was put on afterwards and poorly done?

 

Bondo is not for boats. Remove it.

 

I agree, even with the boat on the can, its fiberglass epoxy, but what he was doing was not right. Im looking to do it right, not cheap out.

 

Great picture. I'm convinced the layup is fiberglass over kevlar. The de-lamination may be due to the mold release or boat polish not being thoroughly removed before the layer of fiberglass was added. I would not rule out someone was trying to make a mold from the hull and got the mold stuck to the hull.

 

I stand corrected.
There is FG in what you're pulling off. It needs to be removed and replaced. It appears to be 4 Oz cloth.

Both epoxy and poly smell the same while burning. It is their dust that smells differently. Both smell of strong chemicals but still differently. Like beer and wine Both smell of alcohol but not the same.

Kevlar is only used with epoxy.

Repair with epoxy.
Try a long handle knife to keep from cutting your fingers.

Do not sand into the Kevlar. It will become a nightmare.