What Do We Think About Climate Change

The carbon tax will improve efficiency. Important to become super efficient in the future when energy costs skyrocket or a far off war disrupts supply. With out the TAX BIG STICK consumers would continue to waste energy, manufactures would still feed the public HUMMERS and soon...when the reality of energy dependence becomes evident...society will not be able to respond fast enough. People will be forced to chain saw chunks off their McMansions to burn as firewood in the back of their HUMMER turned woodstove, to heat the living room. . I dont view carbon tax as a fix for the environment..I view it as forcing efficiency innovation. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with tax subsidies for wind generation or any other technology that improves energy independence.

 

actually the global economic bust and the ultra slow economy led to a drop in fuel prices and an easing of concerns among politicians. The overall feeling at least among the people I know up in Boulder is that its pretty hopeless to illicit meaningful change amid all the corporate sponsored agnotism and that we are likely at, if not past the point of no return. I'd say about half my climatologist friends think that the temp will stabilize at +3~4.5 degrees and that we are in for some significant changes, the other half dont think it will stabilize at all and that at the present levels of CO2 we are screwed. The idea that we would need to stop all CO2 pollution right now to prevent a massive global climate shift ( runaway warming or snow ball earth event take your pick ) is a less widely held belief at least among most of the folks I know. The real take though it that we are already deeply effecting ecosystems and that we are causing one of the largest extinction events ever. Kinda frightening cause without the diversity of species trophic cascades abound and before you know it that 3~4 degrees doesn't mater much if there's nothing but rocks and dirt to "enjoy" it. Its a simple mater of quality of life.

cheers
B

 

The whole idea behind the Global Warming issue it to make people think. Like Rachel Carsons ..Silent Spring did with chemical degradation of the ecosystem. I believe that it is achieving this. Great changes will have to be made if the temperature does indeed rise 2 or 4 degrees. Best to slowly but surely make the changes now . In the US i believe it would be more effective to drop the Co2 climate change and consentrate on spreading the energy efficiency security message. The energy efficiency of American society is very poor. Need to change this now and faster.

 

On the other hand, jellyfish are a main part of the sea turtles diet, so that population will surely benefit and we can have turtle soup again.

 

Bull hockey. The west is already far more efficient than the 3rd world, and this baloney is only designed to cripple our economy for the sake of Manchuria.

 

Your assuming there are any sea turtles left and there aren't, we killed them all by throwing plastic bags into the gulf. You might want to watch DR J Jacksons lecture I've posted many times before as it clearly documents the demise of 150 million or so Green sea turtles in the gulf not more than a few years ago down to the 15~20 k there are today.

your also assuming this "crap" was designed
it wasn't
it was mankind's biggest blunder after killing the oceans
its the politicians that as usual are trying to twist a very real issue to there own benefit

ps
Are you sure you guys wouldn't like to discuss the original European settlers of North America and the fractious nature of there relationship with the Native Americans. Its really quite interesting assuming you can let go of the preconceived ideas

cheers
B

 

Hoytedow. Dont ever believe that the US is energy efficient and aware. The US is the least efficient country in the WEST. Its shocking to observe just how INCREDIBLY wasteful Americans are. Look at an energy profile of Germany and compare it to the energy profile of the US. For to long the US has used cheap energy as a way to stay competitive. This must change. Energy...whether to create products, heat your home, power your boat or SUPERSIZE me now is a critical component in climate change and the future Quality of Life.

 

Why don't you bring Spain up to Germany's level before criticizing Americans.

 

I suspect Spain is closer to Germany's level than we are.

Granted, each nation's circumstances are unique. We're a different size, a different population density, have a different mix of natural resources, etc.

But what is so horribly wrong about wanting America to be more energy-efficient, and less dependent on foreign oil? Those aren't exactly evil goals, you know....

 

Hoytedow...its easy to critize America. They have the wealth, the power and the physical size to achieve economies of scale, yet for too long they followed the cheap energy, cheap resource approach. This approach is unsustainable.
You would be surprised how far Spain has come in the past decades. For a country with modest GDP they work pretty hard at conforming to regulations and have a very good awareness of the issue. Very few climate change deniers. Energy is priced high to lower waste. My local town, small city, is building a metrosystem, at great expense to make the transport network more efficient.
And as Troy states each country is different but hopefully all countries narrow the differences and work toward a common goal. The common goal is to generate the most out of every resorce to relieve stress on the system . The common goal is enforcable , mutally definded standards.

 

well said Michael

 

Its a shame that " Global warming" discussions overshadow the real goal. Resource management and efficiency. There Can be no Efficiency or resource "Deniers". They would never be able to put forward an educated point of view. It was a mistake of policy makers and activists to dwell on climate change.

 

actually I think the two go very much together, with soon to be 7 billion people and more on the way its pretty hard to illicit meaningful change in the levels of GHG. If we are to succeed in reducing ttl concentrations of GHG then we will need to combine recourse management, efficiency and reduction.

But here's the real rub.
for the duration of the industrial revolution the world inadvertently focused on pounding out as much GHG into the atmosphere as possible and now, if we are to correct that within the time frame remaining before we hit the tipping point (which many think we already have) we must also have a worldwide effort. Its one of those things were we are in it together and everyone is going to have to contribute in order to get a handle on this.

cheers
B

 

The original title of this thread was...What do we think of climate change. I suppose that what we think is meaningless. Id like to know what young people think? How they are taught in school? What kind of awareness they will bring when they grow up. Its the next generation who will face the big challenges. No more V8's ..No more cheap airplane tickets for weekend getaways... No more off season fruits and vegatables transported around the world

 

Then stop with the drilling moratoria. China certainly didn't stop drilling in our region, why should we? Sierra Club needs to jump in the ocean.