What Do We Think About Climate Change

well thanks Cat, its been interesting rereading some of my old books concerning this time period and its particularly convenient that this one is also on line so I can share it with the group

one line of real interest is the tone Bradford takes when speaking of the results of the original peace treaty was for the Natives, remember the time frame is about ten years after the fact and Bradford is recalling events.
the subject of all three quotes is Squanto who escaped English slavery, found his way back to the new world and is now acting as interpreter between the Wompanoag and the colonists

Bradford recognized at least at some point that Squanto had lost everything, once when he discovered all his tribe had died and again in the ensuing years due to the foothold he helped the Europeans gain in the new land.

the level of strife and general ill will between the Europeans and the Natives is evident throughout the document

and several paragraphs on again Bradford describes more of the incident

pretty much the whole thing is one big long list of atrocities with the occasional God bless us all thrown in
again concerning the death of Squanto

 

We went from 45,000 deligates, many flying in personal jets, in Copenhagen to 1,500 in Cancun this year! Key quote: "Nobody wants to get close to the corpse." http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/2/pruden-turn-out-the-lights-the-party-s-over/

 

I drove a Plymouth with bad shocks. It rocked!

 

Using numbers from the US Department of Energy, China alone will be emitting ~25Gt (thousand million metric tonnes) CO2 by yr 2050, in a 'business as usual' scenario, or ~19Gt in an 'extreme austerity' scenario. This ignores The other 2 economies which will have surpassed the US in CO2 emissions by then. Compare that with ENTIRE WORLD CO2 emissions of a mere 8Gt for the yr 2005 from CDIAC. Given the reality of the above numbers, which are NOT disputed, what kind of fool could possibly believe that it's possible to trim CO2 emissions by ANY amount :?: What plan has the chicken little crowd offered that actually addresses the above reality by making real reductions in anthropogenic CO2 emissions, rather than offering plans that amount to more crony capitalism, with LITTLE OR NO EFFECT on actual CO2 emissions?

Jimbo

 

Jimbo...exactly right mate, with China, India and Indonesia all having populations over the BILLION, it is absolute crap to bring in Carbon Taxes or any other sort of goodie two shoes taxes over the rest of the world just to be seeing as doing something.

 

what to do about it is a very complex question

that we are altering the atmospheric chemistry is not
its effects are obviously going on even as we speak
and the fact that these effects are detrimental to the well being of the human race is also well established

the problem of what to do about it is mostly an argument in greed not in necessity
in the end our children will be paying the price for our failure to find an effective solution

 

Atmospheric chemistry my foot! You harp on CO2, so what? CO2 has such a low percentage of our atmosphere that it has no effect on any thing except plant growth. The only time CO2 has a bad effect is when a lake belches in Africa wiping out the neighboring village or a hippy gets so stoned he forgets how to roll down the window of his vanagen. Peace, Bro.

http://www.belch.com/news/belchinglake.htm

 

actually CO2 has huge consequences in the atmosphere
we have raised the concentration ~30% over the industrial age and doubled the concentration of methane as well. Pretty big numbers eh.

Both are proven green house gasses and there is direct evidence ( temperature going up anyone ) that its having exactly the predicted effect.

Need I post the link to Naomi Oreski's film "The American Denial of Global Warming" again or do you all have it saved to your files by now

cheers
and thanks Bro
here
take a hit and pass it on

peace
B

 

Nothing proven to me, but maybe I am just dense, or not gullible enough yet[exhales].

 

Uh... you guys like boats and water, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

You're forgetting one of the main problems with rising CO2 is not all this global warming crap, but the destruction of the ocean and the life in it.

Increased atmospheric CO2 causes the ocean to become more acidic as it absorbs CO2. This higher acidity kills coral reefs, weakens the skeletal structure of various shell fish and generally causes problems for the food chain.

That's not to say other species won't thrive... there will be lots more jelly fish, tons of weeds and algae and probably some other vermin I don't know of off the top of my head.

Something to consider about pollution, rather than worry about carbon taxes, global warming and all that crap. This is real. This happens in a place we all love (or should love as boaters!!)

Oh yeah, if the big fish die off, we're ALL dead. Fish are a significant source of human food, globally.

 

No, it's not real. Jimbo and Guillermo have already dealt with it. I could pull it up somewhere on this thread...but so could you. In short, the ocean won't go beyond it's saturation point, the system is in balance, and if there were more CO2 in the ocean, it would precipitate out. The acid ocean argument is simply the next tactic. (Deal with pollution if you want to come to reality and still do something for our planet) 45,000 deligates to 1,200 deligates - will you fanticists ever notice that you are the only ones left?
Check out what your governmnet does for you: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/dec/03/wikileaks-us-manipulated-climate-accord

 

Who is fanatacist? Me?

Don't get me started on government. I'm an anarchist and would love it to crumble. Would love to live in a lawless society where human morality and decency were the rule of law. If someone threatened the personal safety of me or my family, I could legally kill them, because there aren't laws to run afoul of. Ahhh... to dream.

So yeah, I'm on your side of this lame *** argument.

I'm no fanatic. I do, however, notice a huge difference in the chemistry of the ocean and am not sure what is causing it. My hunch is pollution of some kind or another - runoff, etc... There are far more jelly fish, far less regular fish and more toxic algae blooms than there have ever been in my lifetime. Personally, I'd like the ocean to remain healthy since I live in it.

 

something like 95/100 fish over one foot long have already been removed from the ocean. Its a fact. Jellyfish blooms are decimating fish fry in what was prime fish breading grounds like the gulf of Mexico and ocean acidification is the net result of our oceans attempting to equalize with the atmospheric CO2 increases. Another fact as has been pointed out to both Jim and G numerous times, there blind insistence otherwise a testimony to the folly of agnotism.

In a nut shell the numbers on this years climate studies are moments from being out but as of a month ago it was staking up to be the warmest year on record. We will have to wait and see on that one but regardless of if its the warmest or second warmest its still obvious that climate change is real and its happening now.

cheers
B

 

How do we go from 45,000 deligates in Copenhagen (And WHY - that's like coming to THIS Godforesaken-in-winter place) to discounted hotels in Cancun presently. I have a friend with a fine restaurant there and though they are pretty booked up for Christmas break, they are empty now for the climate summit. Doesn't that suggest that this is pretty much a dead horse, Bos? I mean, a large part of AGW "science" IS consensus, right? The consensus seems now to be that it's just not that big of deal and that there are more immediate means to the brass ring of One-World-Government.

 

With something like 120 deligates flooding Cancun for the summit, one would think somebody would have noticed... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...alted-Thats-happened-warmest-year-record.html