What Do We Think About Climate Change

The Mayflower "guests" were known to the English as "Congregationalists" which was their religious belief (I'm a Congregationalist) and one of many reasons they (the British) were happy to see them leave Europe. There were others as well, plus a division among them shortly after their arrival. For the most part these people were literally drummed out of England as separatists (and called separatists on documentation of the era) and took up life in Holland. Once they noticed their kids adopting the Dutch ways, they decided they wanted a shot at the "new world", so funding was arranged and a contract drawn up, by several English investors, thinking this was their way of getting something out of the new world (the contract required each to serve them in the new world for several years) and dealing a huge blow to the growing separatist movement (from the church of England).

For the most part, these folks where "fundamentalist" in nature, much like the same faction of Muslims today, wanting a "return" to more spiritual and biblical life styles, rather then the decadence of modern 17th century Europe. Naturally, once they got to the new world, things changed considerably as they needed to literally hack out a life from the wilderness. It took several decades and a full four generations before they settled into what all fundamentalist societies end up in, a perverted and distorted version of their original belief system. In this country, it developed into the witch trials and other similar self imposed, self righteousness, naturally all quite self destructive too. The first significant changes occurred in the early 1660's when the leaders of the original pilgrims and natives died. With the passing of this generation's leaders, their true fanatical nature took root.

At the time of the noted feast, these people had noting but gratitude in their hearts for the natives, as they damn well knew why they had survived and were very "thankful" of the help they received. The self righteousness that was to come was nearly a century away and the last thing on their mind.

The pilgrims is an 19th century term and though the feast day was honored separately in many places, it was nearly 170 years before Washington made a proclamation about the day and it still it took 2 and a half centuries before it was a national holiday. That original presidential proclamation has been a tradition ever since 1789, with Obama doing the same just last week. Interestingly enough, Washington did it initially more as a celebration of the end of the war, then anything else. History isn't hard folks, but it does require study and more then a Wikipedia search.

 

Nothing to argue with there, PAR. In fact, it's a rather good summation.

My original objection was simply to Boston's depiction of Thanksgiving as some sort of victory feast, celebrating the conquest of Indians by whites.

 

1637, a coincidence? hmmmm.

Quit cutting the tails off fairies it interferes with flight characteristics.

 

and here i thought the pilgrams just hated turkeys

 

it would seem that after a million or so years of evolution and attaining our currant level of intelligence we are now evolving to less intelligence as evidenced by those on the right

in a few generations those descended from the current right will fall under the jurisdiction of animal controll

would hunting them for food be considered cannibalism?

 

You know, I object to people irrationally smearing 'the Right' almost as much as I object to them doing it to 'the Left.' It isn't productive; it just continues the mindless squabbling.

The truth is that in spite of what extremists at each end would have you believe, the two wings (left and right) are attached to a pretty big body in the middle....

 

so, you took that seriously?

 

When you post that sort of stuff nonstop, it gets hard to believe there's no malice involved. But let's not get into it, OK?

I'm already a finalist for dumbest internet argument of the week (Does Thanksgiving celebrate the exploitation of Native Americans?). There's no sense starting another one, and possibly splitting the judges' votes....

 

That's exactly what the holidays (remembrance type like thanksgiving) are intended for... To keep the events remembered in the future. To keep beating the "victories" into the defeated.

 

i make comments warranted by the conversation
it's hard for me to take much of what i read online seriously

i need to come up with a good online money scam to make it interesting

 

You obviously know nothing about Thanksgiving, Masrapido. It isn't any sort of 'remembrance' holiday. It's basically a harvest festival, like people have all over the world. People get together to enjoy good food and good company, and count their blessings.

To claim that it celebrates conquest of the Indians is to ignore the simple fact that Whites and Indians celebrated the original Thanksgiving together.

But I guess there's nothing to be done with people who willfully interpret anything and everything that happens in the most evil and negative way possible, so they can continue to feed their hatred and resentment....

 

if some think it's a celebration of conquest then that is what it is for them

that's the thing about history, it may come to mean something different than what happened when it was being made

 

It certainly isn't what it originally meant, or what it means to me or my family. And I would venture to say most Americans would look at you incredulously if you tried to tell them that's what they're celebrating, because it's the last thing on their mind.

If that's what it has come to mean for some folks the problem is theirs, not mine.

 

i wasn't assigning blame just stating an observation

for instance christmas,

hroughout the holiday's history, Christmas has been the subject of both controversy and criticism from a wide variety of different sources. The first documented Christmas controversy was Christian-led, and began during the English Interregnum, when England was ruled by a Puritan Parliament.[99] Puritans (including those who fled to America) sought to remove the remaining pagan elements of Christmas. During this period, the English Parliament banned the celebration of Christmas entirely, considering it "a popish festival with no biblical justification", and a time of wasteful and immoral behavior.[100]

now it should be called dickensmas

 

interesting stuff Par and yes I think Wiki is a bad source for a lot of info as well

The origins of the mythos concerning that first feast day originated from a single paragraph apparently. Like it or not those early colonists were not always held in the highest regard by the historians who study them. There is a lot written concerning some of the less than stellar behavior of these folks and although it does seem to be a hard pill to swallow for some its the simple reality of the history